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Modifiers - apply before or after halving/reducing a stat

Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 6:43 pm
by trenloe
First time poster...

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere - I did a search and couldn't find anything. I hope I'm just missing some one sentence somewhere in the rules that would make this clear, and I'm just not finding it.

There are a few places where an attribute is halved - for example: Defense when defending against a critical attack, AT when attacking while suffering from Visibility level IV.

Another example: MOV being reduced by 25%, 50% or 75% due to levels of Paralysis.

Are modifiers for conditions etc. applied before or after halving the stat?

For example, if a defender against a critical attack is suffering from Pain II, do they subtract 2 before halving or after?

Thanks!

Re: Modifiers - apply before or after halving/reducing a stat

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:18 am
by Shinxirus
I don't recall the exact place where it's discussed, but I seem to remember that you first apply additive modificators, that is +/- X, and then multiplicators. So in your example, the defender would first apply the penalty from his pain levels (as well as any penalties for defenses after the first), then half that value.

Re: Modifiers - apply before or after halving/reducing a stat

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:08 am
by Bosper
I cant look it up right now, but i am 100% sure that Shinxirus is right here. First the modifiers than the halving, for example in defending against a crit.

Re: Modifiers - apply before or after halving/reducing a stat

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:33 am
by trenloe
Thanks for the responses!

That makes sense - otherwise applying modifiers after halving might make a lot of checks virtually impossible.

I'd still appreciate an official source if possible - I'm kinda that way... ;)

Re: Modifiers - apply before or after halving/reducing a stat

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:00 pm
by Shinxirus
Well the one instance I've found so far is is the description of critical hits for melee and ranged attacks in the rulebook. In the example texts for each of those, damage is determined by first adding the constant to the damage roll, then doubling it.

Re: Modifiers - apply before or after halving/reducing a stat

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:19 pm
by trenloe
Shinxirus wrote:Well the one instance I've found so far is is the description of critical hits for melee and ranged attacks in the rulebook. In the example texts for each of those, damage is determined by first adding the constant to the damage roll, then doubling it.

Yeah, I think that's the only example.

The thing that gets me thinking with, for example, parrying a critical hit - the core rules say "Halve the target’s defense stat against the attack" The core rules don't specifically really define "Stat", but the beginning of the combat chapter states "If you just want to jump right in and calculate your combat stats, turn to page 51." - where the base combat technique values (attack, parry, ranged combat) are calculated. So, is this base value the "stat" that is halved, or is the "stat" the base value adjusted by modifiers?

Then, for visibility level 4, it just says "halve close combat AT". And for Paralysis it just says "reduce MOV by XX%".

So, no real clues there for a clear indication. Other than the one example - critical damage, which it can be argued is different from checks or modifying base stats - because it's modifying the end total, not the actual target number for a check.

Re: Modifiers - apply before or after halving/reducing a stat

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:56 pm
by Bosper
I still cant give you a source, but we did it like that in all official con games ive taken part in. And the guys writing the rules should know them, i hope :P
The german rules are also a bit clearer i guess. The Attack Value is halved, the value is what you got after modification. Same for Speed and Paralysis, Speed is what you can move after all modifications. Including dis/advantages and other things.
Cant give you an english source, since i dont have any.

Re: Modifiers - apply before or after halving/reducing a stat

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 10:51 pm
by trenloe
Thanks Bosper and Shinxirus - that’s good enough for me at this point.

Thanks very much for the feedback and assistance.