Help me figure out magic-users

scottishclaymore
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Help me figure out magic-users

Postby scottishclaymore » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:26 am

So I am playing through Emperor of Thieves right now as a White Mage. Last night we got into a fight with the Ivash (fire demon). It was a narrow thing, but we did manage to defeat it. The only reason we managed to avoid a TPK was because my mage used Gardanium to protect us from the Ivash's magma breath ability.

In discussing the battle with my GM, though, and consulting the rules, we both agreed that Gardanium shouldn't have worked as the Ivash's magma ability is technically not a spell (though of course I didn't know this during session). Which leads me to a question: having re-consulted the rules it looks like there are almost no guild mage tradition spells which would actually work against demons (with the possibly exception of Ign, which wouldn't have worked against an Ivashim anyway). Demons are immune to states like pain, paralysis, etc., and spells with the target designation "living creatures" (such as Fulminictus, which White Mages start with) don't work on them.

My question is, what is the reason for this? I don't know the lore of Aventuria super well as of yet, but it seems like a huge oversight that mages would not have more options to counteract demons. Do they just never fight them? If anti-magic spells (such as Gardanium) work against liturgical chants, why don't they work against demonic abilities?

At this point I am a little frustrated with playing a magic-user in The Dark Eye. It seems a lot more constrained than other comparable tabletop RPG's. Is there some kind of important rules distinction I am missing here, or is the game really designed to play this way?

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HEX the Dark
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Re: Help me figure out magic-users

Postby HEX the Dark » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:30 am

I personally can't tell about the Gardium, about whether or not it should protect against an Ivash's attacks or not.
But I can attest you that there are many different other spells that can be used to battle deamons, although many of them aren't in the core rules. In this very special case e.g. there are other -faxius spells, one with water instead of fire (the Aquafaxius), which would be very effective.
Also interesting to know, in 4e the Fulminictus was against "singular targets" and not only against living beings.
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scottishclaymore
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Re: Help me figure out magic-users

Postby scottishclaymore » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:34 am

That is really interesting. I can read a little German. What book would I need to get to get those other spells?

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HEX the Dark
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Re: Help me figure out magic-users

Postby HEX the Dark » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:46 am

In 4e it was the "Liber Cantiones" books, however in 5e i think they will be in Aventuria Magic (?) 1&2, or also an extra book.
You can also wait until the rules-wiki is online, which hopefully won't take too long.
So far you're stuck with the spells from the basic rules, I am afraid.
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scottishclaymore
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Re: Help me figure out magic-users

Postby scottishclaymore » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:45 pm

Thanks for your help, Hex.

Could anyone else offer some clarification about Gardanium, i.e., does it effect demonic abilities, liturgical chants, that sort of thing?

Also, in the German version of 5e, is Fulminictus limited to only "living creatures" as targets?

Also, when it says that demons are "immune to states" does that mean they are also immune to magical spells that impose those states? Or is that only meant to apply to the state when it is imposed in a mundane way?

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HEX the Dark
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Re: Help me figure out magic-users

Postby HEX the Dark » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:16 pm

"Also, in the German version of 5e, is Fulminictus limited to only "living creatures" as targets?"

Yes, it seems like this is the case now.

"Also, when it says that demons are "immune to states" does that mean they are also immune to magical spells that impose those states? Or is that only meant to apply to the state when it is imposed in a mundane way?"

I think they can't be affected by them, imposed in one way or another.
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Lambert
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Re: Help me figure out magic-users

Postby Lambert » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:07 pm

In the Core rules we have enough spells to be able to play a witch, elf or wizard but not nearly every field is covered. There are specialised spells for dealing with demons and demonic influence. They didn't used to be common, because in order to learn how to deal with a demon you need to learn about the demons itself, and often people attempted to prevent wizards from learning demonology.

I am sure there will be people who have played Version 4.1 who will know exactly all the right spells to banish, control or harm demons but until the magic book gets released (December I think) and then translated (maybe December 2017) you might want to hand wave that stuff away or minimise the demons which need to be magically dealt with.

As for the Gardanium spell shield. I would also allow it to work against the Ivarch flame tongue power. After all it is a ranged fire attack of demonic energy so why not let the shield protect against that. Sure the demon didn't need to cast a spell to make it work but it feels very similar.

As for what else the shield should work against, that depends on party balance. Is the wizard already the super star of the party then maybe other things that aren't strictly speaking spells penetrate, but if the wizard could do with more wins, why not have it work against other things, specially if it allows cool team work between party members.

scottishclaymore
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Re: Help me figure out magic-users

Postby scottishclaymore » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:34 pm

From a design perspective, do liturgical chants count as spells?

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Deti
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Re: Help me figure out magic-users

Postby Deti » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:01 pm

No, liturgical chants have nothing to do with magic, they're power given by the gods and work differently. You can't protect yourself with a Gardianum against them.

scottishclaymore
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Re: Help me figure out magic-users

Postby scottishclaymore » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:33 am

So, basically what I am hearing is that there is really no reason to play a White Mage. They aren't as good at fighting as fighters, their best spells drain too much AE and the cost can't be reduced, and they are basically useless against other magical enemies.

Seems like a mundane character is really the best way to go in this game. That is a shame, because White Mages looked really cool.


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