On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

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Kamelion
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Re: On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

Postby Kamelion » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:39 pm

TiaMaster wrote:And I have yet to see anybody who GMed oTORG say they had cyber-ninja-werewolf-edeinos in their games, so I think we can be safe in not saying that anymore, as nobody yet has mentioned it.

We had a cyber-werewolf. He blew his recovery roll and had to monster-out in order to survive the surgery. Good times. Well, for me.
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Rabbitball
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Re: On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

Postby Rabbitball » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:46 pm

TiaMaster wrote:And I have yet to see anybody who GMed oTORG say they had cyber-ninja-werewolf-edeinos in their games, so I think we can be safe in not saying that anymore, as nobody yet has mentioned it.


Not that specifically, but I did have a few "walking 4-cases". One was the teenage mutant ninja werewolf created when the ninja took his third wound and rather than let him bleed out, the party's current werewolf "saved him" by infection. We had another ninja pick up an elf longsword and a plasma rifle as "primary" weapons. And practically every Core Earth magician I saw quickly entered "walking 4-case" territory as soon as they saw an Ayslish magician throw his first fireball. Not to mention the fact that many of them tried to craft the Lightsaber spell as soon as they had all four magic skills...
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InertiaKitty
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Re: On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

Postby InertiaKitty » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:51 pm

I posted this elsewhere, but I know a guy whose original cosm I don't know (I lived halfway across the country from the group at the time this was played), but who deliberately stayed in a reality storm so that he got a transform result to Aysle, where he got a buncha magic skills. Then he abused the Naming mechanics to transform into an Aysle demon. Then he deliberately stayed in a reality storm until he got a transform result to Tharkold, which made him a Technodemon.

So, not cyber-ninja-werewolf, but something-wizard-technodemon, which I guarantee isn't any nicer.
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Rabbitball
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Re: On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

Postby Rabbitball » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:55 pm

InertiaKitty wrote:I posted this elsewhere, but I know a guy whose original cosm I don't know (I lived halfway across the country from the group at the time this was played), but who deliberately stayed in a reality storm so that he got a transform result to Aysle, where he got a buncha magic skills. Then he abused the Naming mechanics to transform into an Aysle demon. Then he deliberately stayed in a reality storm until he got a transform result to Tharkold, which made him a Technodemon.

So, not cyber-ninja-werewolf, but something-wizard-technodemon, which I guarantee isn't any nicer.


Of course, just playing a technodemon would have been a whole lot easier...
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
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Re: On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

Postby InertiaKitty » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:08 pm

Rabbitball wrote:Of course, just playing a technodemon would have been a whole lot easier...


I don't think the Tharkold book was out yet when he first CharGenned....
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Rabbitball
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Re: On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

Postby Rabbitball » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:22 pm

I know the Orrorsh book wasn't out when Han was bitten, so I can relate.
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

utsukushi
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Re: On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

Postby utsukushi » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:46 am

Han bit first.

...Sorry, reflex. But this is why we need all the Cosm books right now this very minute. It's the only way to avoid these kinds of shenanigans.

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Re: On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

Postby Kanaris » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:02 pm

TorgHacker wrote:So here's what the Cyberware and Occultech Perks _actually_ end up doing. They allow you to purchase 'clean' cyberware. In the Cyberpapacy, cyberware is readily available...but it's permanently connected to the GodNet. You can be tracked, or worse. The cyberware you're spending a Perk on is almost completely devoid of those drawbacks, and works nearly perfectly. In Tharkold, occultech originally comes from technodemons. It's tainted with a hint of magic. Technodemons can smell it, and track you down. Easily. Cybertech origianlly made for demons but used by humans is going to have problems...but the Perk you spend represents the occultech you track down that _isn't_ flawed. It's been completely cleaned of magic. It works nearly perfectly.


I definitely agree that perks solves a *lot* of problems with character creation and advancement in the old rules, especially from a game balance perspective. And though I personally loved the beauty of OTorg's magic system, it was brutal to all but the most experienced gamers. I am also keen to see a game where players actually spend possibilities on something other than soaking damage, negating villain's possibilities or a shot at glory.

But looking specifically at occultech, it appears to be as good as Cyberpapal cyberware despite the different Tech axiom. Granted that the perk has a strength pre-requisite, but the implants have neither a magic axiom or a star indicating that they are supported by the Tharkold world laws. This seems a little strange from both a rules and setting perspective. It means occultech functions fine in the Cyberpapacy, but cyberware is a contradiction in Tharkold. Occultech is described (p 95) as a blend of magic and tech. Even if the demonic influence is exorcised for occultech obtained through the Perk, does that mean that the implants become pure tech? If so, should not some cyberware also have a tech axiom of 25, if it is functionally substantially equivalent to an occultech implant?

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Re: On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

Postby Gargoyle » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:28 pm

Kanaris wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:So here's what the Cyberware and Occultech Perks _actually_ end up doing. They allow you to purchase 'clean' cyberware. In the Cyberpapacy, cyberware is readily available...but it's permanently connected to the GodNet. You can be tracked, or worse. The cyberware you're spending a Perk on is almost completely devoid of those drawbacks, and works nearly perfectly. In Tharkold, occultech originally comes from technodemons. It's tainted with a hint of magic. Technodemons can smell it, and track you down. Easily. Cybertech origianlly made for demons but used by humans is going to have problems...but the Perk you spend represents the occultech you track down that _isn't_ flawed. It's been completely cleaned of magic. It works nearly perfectly.


I definitely agree that perks solves a *lot* of problems with character creation and advancement in the old rules, especially from a game balance perspective. And though I personally loved the beauty of OTorg's magic system, it was brutal to all but the most experienced gamers. I am also keen to see a game where players actually spend possibilities on something other than soaking damage, negating villain's possibilities or a shot at glory.

But looking specifically at occultech, it appears to be as good as Cyberpapal cyberware despite the different Tech axiom. Granted that the perk has a strength pre-requisite, but the implants have neither a magic axiom or a star indicating that they are supported by the Tharkold world laws. This seems a little strange from both a rules and setting perspective. It means occultech functions fine in the Cyberpapacy, but cyberware is a contradiction in Tharkold. Occultech is described (p 95) as a blend of magic and tech. Even if the demonic influence is exorcised for occultech obtained through the Perk, does that mean that the implants become pure tech? If so, should not some cyberware also have a tech axiom of 25, if it is functionally substantially equivalent to an occultech implant?


I wouldn't mind seeing some Tech 25 cyberware in the Cyberpapacy book. Just like we still have good old fashioned Tech 22 in Core Earth here and there, it would make sense that some good old fashioned Tech 25 stuff would be available there, especiallybecause it's all "clean" of Godnet connections and produced by chopshops so it would stand to reason that some of it is more primitive. But it also makes sense that we haven't seen that yet with the limited space in the core book.
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Kanaris
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Re: On the restriction of some Perks to specific cosms.

Postby Kanaris » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:14 pm

I agree that complexity should wait for the Cosm books. I suppose I find it odd that under the RAW, at least in so far as "clean" occultech is concerned, it does substantially the same kinds of things as cyberware, but has a different tech axiom - which has the consequence that cyberware is a contradiction in Tharkold but not occultech in the Cyberpapacy.

Personally I would have occultech given a magic axiom as well (it is "occult" tech after all!), but a theoretical difficulty is Tharkold's magic axiom is not sufficient to support permanent magic items (though it is sufficient to support charged items, and perhaps occultech is "charged" by the bearer's psyche, and the rules at 161 state that "Even a 'clean' install imparts nightmares, pain, and occasional problems with impulse control" which is at least suggestive of residual magic, though it could just as easily be that Tech 25 cyberware has greater issues with cyberpsychosis).


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