Some questions

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TiaMaster
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Some questions

Postby TiaMaster » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:52 pm

Some rare individuals, however, are able to hold on to their original reality and carry it with them into other cosms.

This might need to be changed now, seeing as its no longer true.
Some rugged souls reject both Light and Darkness. These rare individuals are called “Outsiders“ by the natives of Aysle, and are equally mistrusted by both sides.

Is there something that makes these individuals able to violate the Law?
Edeinos with the Death Claw Perk cause Strength +3 damage, Armor Piercing 2 when attacking with their claws.

This is basically +1 damage and 2 AP more than without the Perk?
The Stone Skin Perk grants an edeinos Armor +2. This is normal Armor, and therefore does not stack with other forms of Armor (see page 144).

Seems odd, is it really so OP to have it stack? Since in reality it is actually stacked on top of each other (like a edeinos wearing leather armor).

Speed Demon is a Perk, but Beast Riding bonus is just if you have the skill? (A successful melee weapons attack while mounted on a running beast causes +2 damage.) They're both the same thing, but one requires you to buy a Perk.
Thunder Brew: This explosive brew is placed inside a glass container and used as a grenade. It detonates on impact, potentially concussing anyone in a Medium Blast. Those affected must make a standard Strength test. Those who pass suffer 2 Shock; those who fail are KO’ed.

Did this come up as overpowered in playtesting?

Can a speeding flyer get the beast riding/speed demon bonus? Seems like it but it was never mentioned.

Only core earthers can counter possibilities? This was something that happened every single round in my games...
Denizens of the Living Land, both the edeinos and those who have transformed to it, can embrace the Law of Savagery to gain a number of powerful abilities.

If it uses the World Law, how can they invoke it outside of the LL?

If shock fades at a rate of one per minute, why is a character out for thirty? That would be MAJOR trauma.

Thanx!

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TorgHacker
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Re: Some questions

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:16 pm

TiaMaster wrote:
Some rare individuals, however, are able to hold on to their original reality and carry it with them into other cosms.

This might need to be changed now, seeing as its no longer true.



Yep, it's been highlighted in the "Bug" list.

Some rugged souls reject both Light and Darkness. These rare individuals are called “Outsiders“ by the natives of Aysle, and are equally mistrusted by both sides.

Is there something that makes these individuals able to violate the Law?



Not really. Light and Darkness isn't like the old Nile Law of Morality where you were forced to be one or the other. Outsiders simply choose not to pick sides.

Edeinos with the Death Claw Perk cause Strength +3 damage, Armor Piercing 2 when attacking with their claws.

This is basically +1 damage and 2 AP more than without the Perk?



Yes.

The Stone Skin Perk grants an edeinos Armor +2. This is normal Armor, and therefore does not stack with other forms of Armor (see page 144).

Seems odd, is it really so OP to have it stack? Since in reality it is actually stacked on top of each other (like a edeinos wearing leather armor).



Yep. We originally had it stacked but was pretty nasty.


Speed Demon is a Perk, but Beast Riding bonus is just if you have the skill? (A successful melee weapons attack while mounted on a running beast causes +2 damage.) They're both the same thing, but one requires you to buy a Perk.



I _think_ it's because just attacking from a bike wouldn't give you that. I'll ask Darrell.


Thunder Brew: This explosive brew is placed inside a glass container and used as a grenade. It detonates on impact, potentially concussing anyone in a Medium Blast. Those affected must make a standard Strength test. Those who pass suffer 2 Shock; those who fail are KO’ed.

Did this come up as overpowered in playtesting?



I didn't have direct experience in my playtesting with that. However, it still requires a hit roll to start, then the victims get effectively a 'save' and reality-rated folks could spend a Possibility on that if needed. Most Ords would just get taken out by a Wound, so it's not that much worse than say, a frag grenade.


Can a speeding flyer get the beast riding/speed demon bonus? Seems like it but it was never mentioned.



Only if the flyer was a beast, or it was a flyer that allows unrestrained attacks.


Only core earthers can counter possibilities? This was something that happened every single round in my games...



Yup, and the 'every single round' that was the big reason why.



If it uses the World Law, how can they invoke it outside of the LL?



"Abilities" (i.e. Perks) that are supported by World Laws of a reality can be used as a contradiction outside that reality.


If shock fades at a rate of one per minute, why is a character out for thirty? That would be MAJOR trauma.

Thanx!


KOed is a condition, it's not a state that's based on your current Shock (which is never higher than your Shock Limit). So as an example, say your Shock Limit is 10, and you're at 10, and you take more Shock. You're KOed.

Now you're down for 30 minutes. 10 minutes later you have no more Shock, but that doesn't end your KOed condition.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

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TorgHacker
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Re: Some questions

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:35 pm

So yes, the Speed Demon Perk is needed if you want that +2 damage from a bike or other vehicle. Otherwise you don't get that bonus.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

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Spatula
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Re: Some questions

Postby Spatula » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:00 pm

Instead of making a new thread, I'll just throw out the question that I came here to post in this one:

Defeat, page 117-8: do wound penalties apply to the roll? What's the DN?

Been reading straight through so far and I've seen a bunch of "make a test" statements in the text without specifying what the DN should be. I'm guessing it's meant to be Standard (10) unless stated otherwise (?), but that hasn't actually been said anywhere yet. Unless I missed it. But then there are instances where the DN is spelled out, even when it's Standard, such as the First Aid skill (page 78), or the Helper perk (page 104). So I'm a little confused.

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Hobbes
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Re: Some questions

Postby Hobbes » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:10 pm

TiaMaster wrote:
Edeinos with the Death Claw Perk cause Strength +3 damage, Armor Piercing 2 when attacking with their claws.

This is basically +1 damage and 2 AP more than without the Perk?


It does read that it stacks with ... Brawler? Perk.. +2 damage with Unarmed Combat. Edeinos Claws are specifically mentioned as stacking. Str +5; AP 2 isn't bad. Costs you your two perks, but you've basically got a power sword for a hand. That has to be worth something.

TiaMaster wrote:
The Stone Skin Perk grants an edeinos Armor +2. This is normal Armor, and therefore does not stack with other forms of Armor (see page 144).

Seems odd, is it really so OP to have it stack? Since in reality it is actually stacked on top of each other (like a edeinos wearing leather armor).


It is internally consistent with the Cyberware and Armor spell which also, presumably, don't stack. AFB, but if the Perk doesn't have the Living Land requirement, just Edeinos, presumably a Transformed Edeinos, or one willing to accept a 1-4 disconnect, could be wandering around with a +6 Armor.

Mind you it's the same total toughness plus armor total that a Nile hero with Super Str and a Major Limitation can get wearing the same armor...

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Objector
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Re: Some questions

Postby Objector » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:56 pm

I threw this in the bug report but maybe this is a better place - under checking for defeat, when it talks about injuries, it explains what an injury does (-1 to an attribute) but I did not see where it discussed a NON permanent injury... how long does the penalty last? Does a succesful medicine skill check remove it?

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Hobbes
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Re: Some questions

Postby Hobbes » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:22 pm

Does Elven Chain have a Magic Axiom requirement at all? Until tech 22 and Kevlar Vest Elven Chain seems like the best choice for most characters from lower tech realms. Elven Chain at tech 12 is identical to the tech 23 Stab Vest. Just wondering.

Edit: Katana and Electric Katana don't have a 2 H note? Electric Katana is the only 1 H +4 damage weapon for now then?

Edit #2: Does a Shield (and some other weapon) count as two weapons as per p.126?

Edit # 3: Trigon Integrated Weapon Mount : "Add the cost of the Weapon" Does the cost of the weapon come out of the characters general fund or out of the Cyberware fund from the Perk?
Last edited by Hobbes on Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Kuildeous
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Re: Some questions

Postby Kuildeous » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:23 pm

Objector wrote:I threw this in the bug report but maybe this is a better place - under checking for defeat, when it talks about injuries, it explains what an injury does (-1 to an attribute) but I did not see where it discussed a NON permanent injury... how long does the penalty last? Does a succesful medicine skill check remove it?


Until all the Wounds are healed. Page 118, under Good result.
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Objector
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Re: Some questions

Postby Objector » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:41 pm

Kuildeous wrote:
Objector wrote:I threw this in the bug report but maybe this is a better place - under checking for defeat, when it talks about injuries, it explains what an injury does (-1 to an attribute) but I did not see where it discussed a NON permanent injury... how long does the penalty last? Does a succesful medicine skill check remove it?


Until all the Wounds are healed. Page 118, under Good result.



Doop! Thank you.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Some questions

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:54 pm

Spatula wrote:Instead of making a new thread, I'll just throw out the question that I came here to post in this one:

Defeat, page 117-8: do wound penalties apply to the roll? What's the DN?

Been reading straight through so far and I've seen a bunch of "make a test" statements in the text without specifying what the DN should be. I'm guessing it's meant to be Standard (10) unless stated otherwise (?), but that hasn't actually been said anywhere yet. Unless I missed it. But then there are instances where the DN is spelled out, even when it's Standard, such as the First Aid skill (page 78), or the Helper perk (page 104). So I'm a little confused.


Bottom of page 108. If a test is asked for and a DN isn't listed, it's 10.

And yes, Wound penalties apply to the Defeat test.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America


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