Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Farast
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Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby Farast » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:58 pm

Since I have several questions around this topic I figured that I would make a general thread for them.

1) The rules for Magic and Miracles state that to cast spells the character, "must be able to speak and move their hands". If a character is using a shield and sword they can still move their hands correct? Or do both hands need to be empty?

2) Non standard DN and failure. When a caster fails to cast a spell they take 2 shock. However for a spell like bullet the DN is set by the target. So hitting a target with a dodge of 18 say is much harder than any other spell. It would make sense that if the caster gets above 10 the spell succeeds but the bullet misses. So no damage but equally no failure shock.

3) Fly mentions heavy load. Just to confirm that is anything over 8x strength in kg? Also since no weights are mentioned I assume this is up to the GM to decide.

4) I already submitted a bug report but just to confirm Armour should be range self?

4) Slightly off-topic - Dragon Warrior armour doesn't have a tech level mentioned. Also I assume some or all of the enhancements are magical or divine in nature. I assume these would cause contradictions as normal? Ion Gusoku specifically mentions a tech axiom. However slayer's gun, alchemy, and pulp powers don't. Does just using a perk from a different cosms cause contradictions since they are not possible to have?

Ayaron
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby Ayaron » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:05 pm

Farast wrote:Since I have several questions around this topic I figured that I would make a general thread for them.

4) Slightly off-topic - Dragon Warrior armour doesn't have a tech level mentioned. Also I assume some or all of the enhancements are magical or divine in nature. I assume these would cause contradictions as normal? Ion Gusoku specifically mentions a tech axiom. However slayer's gun, alchemy, and pulp powers don't. Does just using a perk from a different cosms cause contradictions since they are not possible to have?


Any perk marked with a Star symbol causes contradictions outside of the home cosm.

Dragon Warrior and Alchemy has a star, Bulletsmith does not. So would presume the tech level on the Slayer's gun is Orrorsh's Tech level.

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Gargoyle
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby Gargoyle » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:48 pm

Farast wrote:Since I have several questions around this topic I figured that I would make a general thread for them.

1) The rules for Magic and Miracles state that to cast spells the character, "must be able to speak and move their hands". If a character is using a shield and sword they can still move their hands correct? Or do both hands need to be empty?

I don't know what the official ruling is, but my ruling will be that the intent is that they don't have their hands bound or mouth's gagged, so yeah they wouldn't have to put down the sword and shield to invoke a miracle or cast a spell, but if they were tied up or silenced that would stop them. And looking at the wording, I think that I can "move my hands" when holding objects, so the literal interpretation allows for it.


2) Non standard DN and failure. When a caster fails to cast a spell they take 2 shock. However for a spell like bullet the DN is set by the target. So hitting a target with a dodge of 18 say is much harder than any other spell. It would make sense that if the caster gets above 10 the spell succeeds but the bullet misses. So no damage but equally no failure shock.


Bullet is an interesting spell. I think you're being fair and it's not a bad interpretation, but I think I will stick with RAW and here's why:
Per RAW you do have a greater chance of taking shock against harder targets...one thing that makes me think this is OK is that there are no range penalties either. So my thinking is that some of the magic energy that you're wielding is negating range, and thus it sort of balances the scales a little; the dodge skill of the opponent is directly opposing your magical skill after all, not your aim, you're not making a missile weapons roll. And it also gives the caster something to think about. It might not be worth going after a fast target, and I sort of like that.

3) Fly mentions heavy load. Just to confirm that is anything over 8x strength in kg? Also since no weights are mentioned I assume this is up to the GM to decide.

I think like encumbrance it should be a GM ruling for sure.

4) I already submitted a bug report but just to confirm Armour should be range self?

4) Slightly off-topic - Dragon Warrior armour doesn't have a tech level mentioned. Also I assume some or all of the enhancements are magical or divine in nature. I assume these would cause contradictions as normal? Ion Gusoku specifically mentions a tech axiom. However slayer's gun, alchemy, and pulp powers don't. Does just using a perk from a different cosms cause contradictions since they are not possible to have?


Sorry but you can only have one number four, so this is obviously a 4 case contradiction. And also I dunno the answers to these things, but here's a bump to the thread. :)
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

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Atama
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby Atama » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:17 am

Gargoyle wrote:
Farast wrote:Since I have several questions around this topic I figured that I would make a general thread for them.

1) The rules for Magic and Miracles state that to cast spells the character, "must be able to speak and move their hands". If a character is using a shield and sword they can still move their hands correct? Or do both hands need to be empty?

I don't know what the official ruling is, but my ruling will be that the intent is that they don't have their hands bound or mouth's gagged, so yeah they wouldn't have to put down the sword and shield to invoke a miracle or cast a spell, but if they were tied up or silenced that would stop them. And looking at the wording, I think that I can "move my hands" when holding objects, so the literal interpretation allows for it.

I picture a miracle might involve raising your arms into the air while praying, then kneeling in supplication while lowering them. Or casting a spell might involve waving your arms around as you gather power in mystical movements, then pointing them at an enemy while invoking a word of power. Either of which can be done while you're holding objects, but can't be done while tied up. Seems plausible to me!
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Farast
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby Farast » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:20 am

Gargoyle wrote:Sorry but you can only have one number four, so this is obviously a 4 case contradiction. And also I dunno the answers to these things, but here's a bump to the thread. :)


No!! Disconnected in my own reality. I can feel all my knowledge about alternative realities slipping away.

Who writes crap like that ^? Roleplaying games? What foolishness back to my accounting ... ;)

Thanks for your responses.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:10 am

Got the Word from the Holy Darrell...you must have your hands empty as well.

Bugfix already submitted.

Edit: That only applies to spellcasting. Miracles can be invoked with one free, empty hand.
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dev/null
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby dev/null » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:11 am

I will just add here that a spell component bag does exist. The requirements for its use are unclear, and maybe I should look a little harder to see if it's referenced and I missed it. But its existence does seem to indicate you may at least need a single free hand to interact with components at times.

Current operations on this end is: Shield + Unarmed Combat + Dodge.

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dev/null
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby dev/null » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:12 am

TorgHacker wrote:Got the Word from the Holy Darrell...you must have your hands empty as well.

Bugfix already submitted.


Both 100% empty? For all three types?

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TorgHacker
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:20 am

No, just spells and miracles.

Psionics is called out specifically as being different in not needing to speak or use their hands (page 205).
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Hobbes
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby Hobbes » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:34 am

TorgHacker wrote:No, just spells and miracles.

Psionics is called out specifically as being different in not needing to speak or use their hands (page 205).


So the spear wielding Edienos Shaman needs to drop his stick in order to cast Miracles? Personally I can roll my eyes :roll: and ignore such things. But I'll be you an internet dollar that many NPC Miracle casting bad guys in written adventures are going to have weapons in hand. Sometimes important ones that they wouldn't just drop on the ground to pop off a Bless spell. Just sayin' is all.


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