Magic, Miracles and Psionics

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Spatula
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby Spatula » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:28 am

If characters are limited to their cosm's spell/whatever list, does that make the Axiom Increase perk rather worthless to CE casters? I had figured the list was just for starting characters. As all the realities start to interact it seems like they would pick up new tools from other realms, same as in the tech sphere.

Kanaris
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby Kanaris » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:39 am

[quote="Shroudbearer]If I had a player who wanted to go full-on psionic, I'd probably let them pick up other powers, if they fit and they had the proper axioms (For a Core Earth telepath to get MIndblast, they would have to pick Axiom Increase twice to get to Social 25 in addition to picking up Psionic again, which is a decent investment.)[/quote]

The bug document has picked up the gap in the explanation of the Axiom Increase Perk. I too would assume that the increase is only +1 each time, but it doesn't say that. Has there been any word of God about it?

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TorgHacker
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby TorgHacker » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:27 am

Perks can only be selected once, unless otherwise stated.
Deanna Gilbert
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utsukushi
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby utsukushi » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:05 pm

Axiom Increase says "each time this Perk is chosen", so while it doesn't have the traditional, "This Perk may be chosen more than once" wording, that strongly implies it. In some ways that leaves the question of how much it increases an Axiom even fuzzier, though.

I mean... if it only increases by +1, and you can only take it once, then it's definitely only useful for Tech and Social. I mean, there are some Axiom 10 spells... there are no Axiom 11 Miracles... but either way, really, like Tech, they tend to match their Cosm.

If it increases by +1 and you can take it repeatedly... it's still pretty much only applicable to Social and Tech. A Psion could, with only two Perks, catch up to Tharkold's Social Axiom, and three Perks could bring Cybertech down to a 1-case Contradiction. But you'd still need at least five purchases of the Perk to catch your Magic Axiom up to vaguely magic-using-Cosms like Cyberpapacy and Nile, such as they are, and seven to match Orrorsh. Catching up to Aysle is just... out. And it's a minimum of six Perks to catch up to the next Cosm's Spirit rating - Orrorsh and CP's 16s.


Which is why I would actually expect that it kind of lifts you up to the next... tier. One purchase would bring Magic up to 12 (Tharkold), Social to 24 (Pan-Pac), Spirit to 16 (CP and Orrorsh), or Tech to 24 (Pan-Pac). A second purchase could then bring Magic to 14 (Nile/CP), Social to 25 (Tharkold), Spirit to 18 (Nile/Aysle), or Tech to 25 (Tharkold). Third purchase could bring Magic to 16 (Orrorsh), Spirit to 24 (Living Land), and Tech to 26 (CP). And a fourth purchase of the Perk could bring a dedicated Core Earther's Magic Axiom up to Aysle.

That's a total of 12 Perks invested if a really dedicated Core Earther just wants to have the Best of Everything... that doesn't come from Perks, so, pretty much spending 12 Perks to achieve what an Adaptable Realm Runner nailed in two... though I guess they can smuggle things across the border and still only, ever, be a 1-case. Anyway, I don't see anyone actually doing that, I see people doing the 1-4 Perks to match a single Cosm they want something from. So more seriously, it's two to peak in Social, where Core Earth is already near the top of the pile; 3 to reach the top in Tech or Spirit, and four to reach Aysle's pinnacle in Magic.

And that seems pretty reasonable to me. Everything has a cost, nothing is totally out of reach, but the things furthest from Core Earth's baseline do take the most investment.

If you want to go beyond what's available to kind of.... resonate with and `copy', then it should be +1, as you're struggling to push the envelope on your own.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby TorgHacker » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:46 pm

Hmmmmm...yes, I see what you mean (by the 'per selection').

I'll double check with Darrell. As for the rest of your post, remember that there are other higher Clearance Perks later on that may interact with this.
Deanna Gilbert
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lurkingowl
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Re: Magic, Miracles and Psionics

Postby lurkingowl » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:04 pm

I tried to submit this (multiple Increase Axiom perks) to the errata page before it closed. But it never made it onto the spreadsheet. I think someone thought it was a dupe of a separate issue with Increase Axiom.


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