Seize Initiative and the Confused result

User avatar
Rabbitball
Posts: 736
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:41 pm

Seize Initiative and the Confused result

Postby Rabbitball » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:50 pm

When the Action Line says Hero Confused, can a Seize Initiative card be played first to flip a new card, or are the characters stuck with what has been flipped?
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

User avatar
DerHuthmacher
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:03 am
Location: Ruhr area; Germany

Re: Seize Initiative and the Confused result

Postby DerHuthmacher » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:52 am

The way I see it the card text reads: "Play at the beginning of the round to keep the current Drama card for another round, or flip a new one after the card for this round is revealed", so I would think your players can force your hand to flip a new card and live with what this card presents.

It's not always smart to force a new card as you don't know how much worse that card is going to be. I'd see more uses to this card "(Seize Initiative") to let the current Drama card in play for another round.
---
Hell is where the heart is.

Big Lurker
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Seize Initiative and the Confused result

Postby Big Lurker » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:27 am

Technically, rules as written, no. The Confused disadvantage would keep them from using the card. That being said, if they planned ahead to the point of having Seize the Initiative already in their pool, I'd let them do it anyway...

User avatar
DerHuthmacher
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:03 am
Location: Ruhr area; Germany

Re: Seize Initiative and the Confused result

Postby DerHuthmacher » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:31 am

Missed that. You are right, of course.
---
Hell is where the heart is.

User avatar
Gargoyle
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:20 pm

Re: Seize Initiative and the Confused result

Postby Gargoyle » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:42 am

Big Lurker wrote:Technically, rules as written, no. The Confused disadvantage would keep them from using the card. That being said, if they planned ahead to the point of having Seize the Initiative already in their pool, I'd let them do it anyway...


I'm not so certain about that. The playing of Seize the Initiative to draw a different drama card seems to happen before the effects of the conflict line on the drama card that was just flipped, in this case, avoiding Confused. You would have to have it in your pool already, but I don't see why you couldn't use it to avoid a card with the Confused status, just like you would avoid a Setback or whatever. You don't suffer a Surge or Setback from a card that you're avoiding with Seize Initiative, so I don't think you should be Confused either, I don't see it as being different. So I think even in RAW you could use it to avoid being Confused.
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

ZorValachan
Posts: 613
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Seize Initiative and the Confused result

Postby ZorValachan » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:54 am

Gargoyle wrote:
Big Lurker wrote:Technically, rules as written, no. The Confused disadvantage would keep them from using the card. That being said, if they planned ahead to the point of having Seize the Initiative already in their pool, I'd let them do it anyway...


I'm not so certain about that. The playing of Seize the Initiative to draw a different drama card seems to happen before the effects of the conflict line on the drama card that was just flipped, in this case, avoiding Confused. You would have to have it in your pool already, but I don't see why you couldn't use it to avoid a card with the Confused status, just like you would avoid a Setback or whatever. You don't suffer a Surge or Setback from a card that you're avoiding with Seize Initiative, so I don't think you should be Confused either, I don't see it as being different. So I think even in RAW you could use it to avoid being Confused.


I agree with gargoyle. Seize initiative is there to prevent the whole card or keep the current whole card. There is no piecemeal effect where some things are done and others are not.

Seize initiative takes place before the drama card takes effect.
- Leamon Crafton Jr.
Infiniverse Exchange author:

The Paraverse: An entire alternate Cosmverse
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/237607/

The Knights of the Road: Archtypes designed as a Storm Knight group
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228365/

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4470
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Seize Initiative and the Confused result

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:42 pm

Seize the Initiative can be played to flip a Drama card at the time it's flipped at the beginning of the round, even if it's saying Hero Confused. The effects on the card don't take effect yet.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

User avatar
TiaMaster
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Seize Initiative and the Confused result

Postby TiaMaster » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:10 pm

Then you guys should adopt the Magic the Gathering "phases" during the round just for this issue. We should start utilizing a "stack" in the middle of a table and resolve cards in LIFO order, also.

OOH, was just being facetious, but wouldn't it be cool to have a villain special ability "Counter" that can cancel the last used card?

Commence all the comments from the professional GMs on why this wouldn't work.

User avatar
Gargoyle
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:20 pm

Re: Seize Initiative and the Confused result

Postby Gargoyle » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:17 pm

The destiny cards are exception based rules (like all the cards in MtG have the potential to be) but drama cards are not an example of exception based rules, they function pretty well the same all the time. I think it's pretty clear that destiny cards overrule drama cards, so if you think it through with that in mind, you don't need a complex timing system, especially with a game system with so fewer cards than MtG.

Edit: of course my sarcasm detector is busted today. I blame work and weather. ;)
Last edited by Gargoyle on Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

Big Lurker
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Seize Initiative and the Confused result

Postby Big Lurker » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:22 pm

I have no problem running it that way (see previous statement). I was basing it off of their respective wordings...


Return to “Rules Questions (TORG)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests