Card Questions

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Wotan
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Card Questions

Postby Wotan » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:52 pm

Having looked through the decks again recently, there are a few cards which I have questions about, I'd be very grateful for any insights or clarifications which others can offer. :)

Drama/Hero (Destiny)
IIRC, in OTorg Drama counted as a full possibility, in the sense that the die it granted was always counted as rolling at least 10, while Hero cards didn't. Is this still the case? If not, how are the dice granted by each of these cards handled? (Do both roll a minimum of 10, or neither?)

Leadership/Rally (Destiny)
When you refill your hand do you count the cards in your pool towards your hand limit, or just the cards still in your hand.
e.g. if you had 1 card left in your hand & 1 in your pool, would you draw 3 cards to refill your hand to 4, or just 2 cards to take your total to 4?

There are a few cards which make various Skills favoured but without specifying who gets the benefit:
Mana Surge (Aysle)
I guess this makes Magic Skills favoured for everyone? Otherwise it's totally useless unless a mage is lucky enough to draw it. If it does affect others, do antagonists get the benefit as well?
Temptation (Orrosh)
Unlike Mana Surge this feels like it might be intended to only affect the PC who plays it, or does it affect everyone (including antagonists)? I could see Corruption being dual-edged like that.
Kneel (Tharkold)
Is intimidation favoured for everyone during the scene or only for the PC who plays the card?

Temporary Reprieve (Nile Empire)
How does this work when played to avoid failing a DSR? Is it an automatic success on the DSR? Does it reset the timer completely? Does it give one more round? If either of the latter two I presume that completed steps are retained?

Bloodbath (Pan Pacifica)
How is shock damage caused by this card applied to Mobs? I can see it either, effectively reducing the Mob's Shock stat by 2, or causing (2 x the number of NPCs in the Mob) Shock which is applied immediately, KO'ing members of the mob, as normal, if their Shock stat is exceeded.
e.g. A group of SKs are fighting 8 Kanawa Security Troops (Shock 8) when Bloodbath is played. Does it cause 16 shock instantly, KOing 2 of the Kanawa Troops, or does it reduce the Mob's effective Shock limit to 6 for the rest of the fight?

The Law of Hope (Core Earth)
I guess the possibility reset is to the same number as the PCs reset to at the start of the current act?

Cyberpsychosis (Tharkold)
Is it intended that this only works on Occultech, not Cyberware? I only ask because the Tharkold Enraged card & CP Rage card work on both types of "cyborg".

Trap (Aysle)
I like the general idea of the card, but it feels excessively random & potentially deadly for a heroic game.
Unlike the other Cosm cards which can cause complications for other PCs, this one feels like a bit of a "dick move", in the sense that it could quite easily kill a PC, & potentially cause bad feeling at the gaming table as a result.

Is there no chance to defend or dodge? No damage value to compare vs Toughness? 1BD Wounds seems like a lot to inflict automatically, no matter how quick or tough the target might be!
There's a 50% chance a trap will cause 4+ wounds, triggering a Defeat test. Sure it can be soaked, *if* the PC has a possibility to spare, but given that there's a 33% chance of doing 5+ wounds the target's still potentially boned if they don't have a second possibility to augment their soak test with.

The final insult is that the target doesn't appear to benefit from the card's possibility reward, though I'm wondering if the 3 possibilities are actually meant to go to the poor sap who gets hit, rather than the player who plays the card? It really isn't clear to me from the way the card's worded.

Is my analysis off the mark? Does anyone have suggestions for toning this one down?
As it stands, unless it's played first thing in the Act, when everyone's still got the possibilities to survive an unlucky BD result, I can see it sitting in someone's hand for the whole Act. If that's the way it's likely to play out I think I'll either come up with some house rules, or just strip it out of the deck, so my players aren't stuck with a Cosm card which they don't feel they can play.
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Re: Card Questions

Postby utsukushi » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:53 pm

Wotan wrote:Drama/Hero (Destiny)

Both just say, "Play this card as a Possibility," so I take it they both play exactly as a Possibility, complete with Minimum-of-10.

Leadership/Rally (Destiny)
When you refill your hand do you count the cards in your pool towards your hand limit, or just the cards still in your hand.

Hand and Pool seem to be used distinctly throughout the rules, even right on the Leadership card, and it's definitely noted that you can have more than four cards available during a battle - you just have to discard down at the end. So I do believe Leadership rebuilds your hand to four (or five, if a Glory Card has increased the maximum), regardless of what's in your pool.

There are a few cards which make various Skills favoured but without specifying who gets the benefit:
Mana Surge (Aysle)
Temptation (Orrosh)
Kneel (Tharkold)

Mana Surge very definitely strikes me as an area-effect thing, so yeah, I'd say everybody in the scene, PC and NPC alike.

Temptation and Kneel... I have no idea. Temptation really feels more personal, so I would assume just the person who plays it. Kneel I can absolutely see either way -- the title kind of suggests that it applies to the person who plays it, like, giving them a commanding presence, but given the nature of Tharkold, I could really see it being more of a surge in the Law of Domination.

Bloodbath (Pan Pacifica)

I'd reduce the their threshold, if it were me - that feels more like each one taking 2 Shock. So a mob of 8 Security Troops would go from 64 to 48 total Shock, and would start dropping every six points instead of every 8.

The Law of Hope (Core Earth)
I guess the possibility reset is to the same number as the PCs reset to at the start of the current act?

Your guess is as good as mine! Which I mean in what I hope is the slightly more helpful way that I would guess that, too, but I'd also be guessing.

Cyberpsychosis (Tharkold)
Is it intended that this only works on Occultech, not Cyberware? I only ask because the Tharkold Enraged card & CP Rage card work on both types of "cyborg".

And I definitely think you're right there. Rage and Enraged both state Occultech and Cyberware specifically, so if Cyberpsychosis was intended to include Cyberware, I think it would, too.

Trap (Aysle)
I like the general idea of the card, but it feels excessively random & potentially deadly for a heroic game.

I totally agree with you on Trap. The other Cosm cards that bring trouble create a situation the PCs have to deal with (everything that starts a fight) or at least give the players some choice in how badly they get hit and therefor how many Possibilities they get for it (like the Law of Decay). And what's the point of having your party thief along with their Lockpicking and Stealth if they can't even try to disarm a trap? It seems out of genre as well as weird compared to other Cosm cards. And yeah, the lack of clarity about who gets the Possibilities doesn't help, though considering how other cards work, I would assume that they go to the person who actually gets hit. I'd say it should cause a trap at some point that has to be resolved by DSR, but those are more work for the GM than just, "A hoard of zombies" or "a squad of standard issue Church Police."

On the other hand, Aysle otherwise has some of the most beneficial Cosm Cards, so it may need something to make the realm a little less cuddly.

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Re: Card Questions

Postby TorgHacker » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:43 pm

Wotan wrote:Having looked through the decks again recently, there are a few cards which I have questions about, I'd be very grateful for any insights or clarifications which others can offer. :)

Drama/Hero (Destiny)
IIRC, in OTorg Drama counted as a full possibility, in the sense that the die it granted was always counted as rolling at least 10, while Hero cards didn't. Is this still the case? If not, how are the dice granted by each of these cards handled? (Do both roll a minimum of 10, or neither?)



They're treated as Possibilities in every sense. So minimum 10. But also cannot be played when disconnected.


Leadership/Rally (Destiny)
When you refill your hand do you count the cards in your pool towards your hand limit, or just the cards still in your hand.
e.g. if you had 1 card left in your hand & 1 in your pool, would you draw 3 cards to refill your hand to 4, or just 2 cards to take your total to 4?



You draw 3.

There are a few cards which make various Skills favoured but without specifying who gets the benefit:
Mana Surge (Aysle)
I guess this makes Magic Skills favoured for everyone? Otherwise it's totally useless unless a mage is lucky enough to draw it. If it does affect others, do antagonists get the benefit as well?
Temptation (Orrosh)
Unlike Mana Surge this feels like it might be intended to only affect the PC who plays it, or does it affect everyone (including antagonists)? I could see Corruption being dual-edged like that.
Kneel (Tharkold)
Is intimidation favoured for everyone during the scene or only for the PC who plays the card?



Mana Surge: Everyone in the area, including enemies.

Temptation: Only the PC. Orrorsh cards do not play well with others. :twisted:

Kneel: Everyone in the area, including enemies.


Temporary Reprieve (Nile Empire)
How does this work when played to avoid failing a DSR? Is it an automatic success on the DSR? Does it reset the timer completely? Does it give one more round? If either of the latter two I presume that completed steps are retained?

Bloodbath (Pan Pacifica)
How is shock damage caused by this card applied to Mobs? I can see it either, effectively reducing the Mob's Shock stat by 2, or causing (2 x the number of NPCs in the Mob) Shock which is applied immediately, KO'ing members of the mob, as normal, if their Shock stat is exceeded.
e.g. A group of SKs are fighting 8 Kanawa Security Troops (Shock 8) when Bloodbath is played. Does it cause 16 shock instantly, KOing 2 of the Kanawa Troops, or does it reduce the Mob's effective Shock limit to 6 for the rest of the fight?

The Law of Hope (Core Earth)
I guess the possibility reset is to the same number as the PCs reset to at the start of the current act?



Temporary Reprieve prevents a catastrophe, not make it an auto success. The GM has to determine what happens but the effect depends on the stakes of the DSR. Is failing the DSR Really Really Bad [tm]? Then this would would apply.

Bloodbath: Each Ord gets 2 Shock, which then gets combined as normal. So in your example it causes 16 Shock, KOing 2 troops.

Law of Hope: Yes, resets to what the PC would get at the start of the act (which could be more than what the start of the current act had, say from a Glory).


Cyberpsychosis (Tharkold)
Is it intended that this only works on Occultech, not Cyberware? I only ask because the Tharkold Enraged card & CP Rage card work on both types of "cyborg".



Specifying Occultech is intentional. Cyberware isn't affected.


Trap (Aysle)
I like the general idea of the card, but it feels excessively random & potentially deadly for a heroic game.
Unlike the other Cosm cards which can cause complications for other PCs, this one feels like a bit of a "dick move", in the sense that it could quite easily kill a PC, & potentially cause bad feeling at the gaming table as a result.

Is there no chance to defend or dodge? No damage value to compare vs Toughness? 1BD Wounds seems like a lot to inflict automatically, no matter how quick or tough the target might be!
There's a 50% chance a trap will cause 4+ wounds, triggering a Defeat test. Sure it can be soaked, *if* the PC has a possibility to spare, but given that there's a 33% chance of doing 5+ wounds the target's still potentially boned if they don't have a second possibility to augment their soak test with.

The final insult is that the target doesn't appear to benefit from the card's possibility reward, though I'm wondering if the 3 possibilities are actually meant to go to the poor sap who gets hit, rather than the player who plays the card? It really isn't clear to me from the way the card's worded.

Is my analysis off the mark? Does anyone have suggestions for toning this one down?
As it stands, unless it's played first thing in the Act, when everyone's still got the possibilities to survive an unlucky BD result, I can see it sitting in someone's hand for the whole Act. If that's the way it's likely to play out I think I'll either come up with some house rules, or just strip it out of the deck, so my players aren't stuck with a Cosm card which they don't feel they can play.


Yup, Trap reads how you see it. This is intentional. The 3 Possibilities go to the player who plays the card.
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Re: Card Questions

Postby Wotan » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:20 pm

TorgHacker wrote:
Wotan wrote:Trap (Aysle)
I like the general idea of the card, but it feels excessively random & potentially deadly for a heroic game.
Unlike the other Cosm cards which can cause complications for other PCs, this one feels like a bit of a "dick move", in the sense that it could quite easily kill a PC, & potentially cause bad feeling at the gaming table as a result.

Is there no chance to defend or dodge? No damage value to compare vs Toughness? 1BD Wounds seems like a lot to inflict automatically, no matter how quick or tough the target might be!
There's a 50% chance a trap will cause 4+ wounds, triggering a Defeat test. Sure it can be soaked, *if* the PC has a possibility to spare, but given that there's a 33% chance of doing 5+ wounds the target's still potentially boned if they don't have a second possibility to augment their soak test with.

The final insult is that the target doesn't appear to benefit from the card's possibility reward, though I'm wondering if the 3 possibilities are actually meant to go to the poor sap who gets hit, rather than the player who plays the card? It really isn't clear to me from the way the card's worded.

Is my analysis off the mark? Does anyone have suggestions for toning this one down?
As it stands, unless it's played first thing in the Act, when everyone's still got the possibilities to survive an unlucky BD result, I can see it sitting in someone's hand for the whole Act. If that's the way it's likely to play out I think I'll either come up with some house rules, or just strip it out of the deck, so my players aren't stuck with a Cosm card which they don't feel they can play.


Yup, Trap reads how you see it. This is intentional. The 3 Possibilities go to the player who plays the card.

Many thanks Dean, As always, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer questions. :)
Also, sincere apologies if the tone of my commentary on the Trap card came across as "arsey" in any way; FWIW, the intended tone was discombobulation rather than "spikey".

I find the Trap card quite jarring, in terms of how the rest of the Aysle realm feels to me. If this kind of mechanic came up in Orrosh or Tharkold, TBH I'd still feel it was pretty brutal for a generally heroic game, but the mechanics would be reinforcing my picture of how dark & dangerous these realms feel from the way the setting presents them. It's part of the "buy-in" for adventuring in Orrosh or Tharkold. *shrug*

In OTorg, to me Aysle always felt like probably the second most heroic of the realms, after NE. The whole Light vs Dark thing feels like classic high fantasy "cheese", &, fwiw, as a genre for RPGs that's my favourite flavour of fantasy, so that's certainly colouring my thinking.
In general, TorgE has a grimer, grittier feel which I do like, but so far it hasn't really come across to me so much for Aysle as it has for most of the other Realms.
How big an influence is the low fantasy, Game of Thrones-esque, genre for Aysle in TorgE? I guess we're not in High Fantasy land anymore?

With the utmost respect, as a mechanic it's the sort of thing that I find more frustrating than fun (in case you hadn't picked that up from my previous post *grin*).
Character death is a thing, sure, but there's something about this which feels kind of arbitrary, there's very little player agency, it's roll some dice and if you're unlucky make a new character. I was never a fan of "Save vs Death" either.

For me, RPGs are about telling a character's story, and "...then he fell down a pit, & died" doesn't feel like a satisfying end to a story. So while the Group XP rule softens the blow a little, mechanically speaking, I'd still feel a little "robbed" in a narrative sense. I'm pretty sure my players won't find it satisfying either (well, maybe one of them, in some circumstances.)
I realise you're not writing a game for any one table, but I'd guess a lot of groups might feel similarly, & can imagine some players being put off the game if a PC they're invested in die because of a Trap. As I said before, there's also the potential for group friction; I can see some players getting peeved if they feel they've lost a favourite character "just" because another player wanted a few extra possibilities for one Act.

To be fair though, the risk of messing with players' enjoyment can probably be mitigated if players are aware how dangerous Aysle can be & have "bought in" to the chance of an insta-death. If you guys are going for a GoT feel, where sometimes poop just happens & heroes die ignoble deaths, then this card certainly helps to reinforce that flavour! :)


utsukushi wrote:Many wise words...

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to such a ridiculously long list of questions, especially when some of them were kind of obvious after a night's sleep! :oops: I always find it handy to have another brain "sanity check" my interpretations on stuff like this. :)
Wotan wrote:Bloodbath (Pan Pacifica)

I'd reduce the their threshold, if it were me - that feels more like each one taking 2 Shock. So a mob of 8 Security Troops would go from 64 to 48 total Shock, and would start dropping every six points instead of every 8.

In some ways, this feels like a nicer way of handling this card's effects IMO, but I can also see an advantage in going with the RAI, in the sense that it saves a bit of bookkeeping if the Mob gets reinforced mid-fight.

Trap (Aysle)
I like the general idea of the card, but it feels excessively random & potentially deadly for a heroic game.

I totally agree with you on Trap. The other Cosm cards that bring trouble create a situation the PCs have to deal with (everything that starts a fight) or at least give the players some choice in how badly they get hit and therefor how many Possibilities they get for it (like the Law of Decay). And what's the point of having your party thief along with their Lockpicking and Stealth if they can't even try to disarm a trap? It seems out of genre as well as weird compared to other Cosm cards. And yeah, the lack of clarity about who gets the Possibilities doesn't help, though considering how other cards work, I would assume that they go to the person who actually gets hit. I'd say it should cause a trap at some point that has to be resolved by DSR, but those are more work for the GM than just, "A hoard of zombies" or "a squad of standard issue Church Police."

I like the idea of the classic D&D thief/rogue role coming out more, but so far am having a mental blank on how to represent this neatly.
It would be nice to bring out this aspect of the genre, but the "danger" of having a mechanical, skill based, way of avoiding the Trap card is that, given how dangerous Trap can be, it incentivises a cautious, rather than an heroic, approach to dungeoneering. It might be totally appropriate in some dungeons (e.g. the classic trapped tomb) but I'm not sure it would be good for the story if the standard MO for dungeon crawling heroes is to resort to moving at a crawl, while the thief takes the lead with their trusty 10' pole. *shrug*

I'm inclined to let an Alertness card allow a Trap to be spotted "in the nick of time" but, if so, I'd reduce the possibility reward. Maybe to 0, but 1 possibility might be a reasonable reward, given how useful a card Alertness can be.
I think I'll also allow PCs with the Bodyguard Perk to push the target aside & take the hit themselves.

On the other hand, Aysle otherwise has some of the most beneficial Cosm Cards, so it may need something to make the realm a little less cuddly.

That's a really good point.

At the moment, my best thoughts for Trap are that I'll have to make my group aware of this card's potential consequences before they first venture into Aysle. If there's a consensus that they hate it, to the extent that they all agree to just not play it, then I might as well remove it from the Aysle deck, &, if so, maybe take out "Look what I Found" too as a bit of a balance.

If we keep it I think I'll at least give the possibility reward to both the target & the player who used the card. If the target's getting a reward too, it's less likely to cause ill-feeling at the table.
I'm also toying with the idea of letting the affected player opt (before the roll) to half the rolled damage at the cost of reducing the reward from 3P to 1P. It keeps Traps in, as a dangerous inconvenience, but gives the player some agency; Do they want to risk going for the big reward, or play it safe (or at least safer)?
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Re: Card Questions

Postby Kuildeous » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:02 am

I feel that Trap is a card that should be played only when the group is able to handle it. As pointed out, there's a 50% chance of sending someone into Death and Dying.

The randomness of the card can be vexing, since it could target a Storm Knight with a horrible Reality or who already has Wounds. I'd be tempted to houserule that the group can choose the sacrificial lamb for only 1 Possibility.

The fact that it happens sometime during the Act can also be scary for players. The player may play it early while everyone is healthy and full of Possibilities, but the trap could be sprung when they're in dire straits. The GM will have to be very mindful of when to trigger this.

And if the BD explodes all over the place and does 27 Wounds, the Storm Knight has a couple of options: Roll 20+ on Reality or roll at least a success on Death and Dying. If it's not during combat, cards can be traded freely. It's scary to see that many Wounds, but it's not impossible to overcome. I would definitely advise hanging onto Second Chance if you know a Trap card has been played because you might need it to soak damage or survive your wounds.

And frankly, players don't have to play it. At all. This may be one of those cards that sits in the owner's hand like Law of Decay might. The situation may not justify the risk.

I agree that "...then he fell down a pit, & died" is not an interesting way to talk about a character, which is why I feel I would narrate the trap after all the dice are rolled. Numerically, the players know what has to be done, so get that all out of the way and tailor the trap to the result. For example, I decide the trap happens as they walk down the corridor. What I say depends on how many Wounds were left:

All Wounds are soaked – "Karl feels a tile give way under his foot, and he instinctively leans back as a giant scythe swings from the ceiling and slices through his bowtie."

1 Wound net effect – "The floor gives way under Karl, and he grabs hold to the edge of the yawning pit. His friends lift him out, but the fall slammed his chest against a sharp rock, causing a rib to possibly break."

2 Wound net effect – "Karl steps on a raised tile which produces a loud click. Before he can react, Karl is impaled by a spear in the wall. Fortunately it misses his vital organs, but it rips through his shoulder and embeds itself in the opposite wall. Karl's friends manage to pull him off of the spear, but Karl has lost a lot of blood."

3 Wounds net effect – "The ceiling above Karl collapses, raining heavy stone blocks on top of him. His doom seems to be sealed, but there is movement! After an hour of digging, Karl's friends save him, but he has many broken bones and a concussion."

Death and Dying test succeeds – "It was only a slight brush against the wall, but Karl learned too late that it contained several barbs coated in a glistening venom. The poison spreads quickly across Karl's body, turning his skin a sickly purplish color. Foaming at the mouth, Karl collapses with his unnaturally bulging eyes staring at the wall in surprise. Will Karl survive the night? The group must make camp and diligently keep watch over him."

Death and Dying test fails – "All of the flagstones look alike to Karl, but one stands out. As Karl steps on it, eldritch runes glow from within. White-hot hellfire courses up Karl's leg and consumes him. Realizing his fate, Karl tosses the Eternity Shard to the group just as his body disintegrates in an arcane whoosh. A cackle echoes down the hallway, 'Good. The Umbra Wraith grows stronger. Come to my lair, Storm Knights, if you dare.'"

And yeah, the rogue disarming traps is so very D&D, which is almost one reason I want to avoid that trope in my Torg games. I can get plenty of that in Nile Empire pyramids. But even if I do embrace the image of a trapfinder in Aysle, I view the Trap card as being something spectacular. Something that exceeds even the skill of the trapfinder. If the players play this, they are saying, "We know this can screw us over, but we acknowledge that life can be cheap sometimes in this realm."

Of course, this all assumes responsible card play by the group. With a bunch of strangers at a convention game, I cannot guarantee responsible card play. In fact, I foresee someone playing it just for the hell of it in a convention game. But for a con game, I would either twist the trap to be less lethal or save the trap for the final fight since it doesn't matter if the PCs live or die anyway.
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Re: Card Questions

Postby mystic101 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:14 am

I wanted to ask a card question, and also make a suggestion.

1. If more than one player has a Glory card, and someone rolls the qualifying 60+, can both cards be played toward it? This came up in my last session. The cards don't say it's prohibited, but I wanted to check. Maybe in-game, it causes two different versions of the incident to spread through the area, each "take" on the story inspiring the populace in a different way? You know how rumors are. How they mutate through the "telephone game" effect. If the details changed sufficiently enough as the two stories circulated, then listeners might not even know they were referencing the same event!

2. I don't know if there will be new Cosm cards in future expansions, but if so, then maybe some of the new cards that are similar to Trap could be made non-optional, and trigger due to some condition being met? Maybe if a player drew "Nu-Trap", they'd be required to play it the next time any party member failed a Find roll or something. I say that as a way to get it into circulation more, because I'm absolutely certain that none of the other players in my current gaming group will ever play it as written. They'd think crippling or killing a fellow pc to be too high a price to pay for a few possibilities, and would be worried about the narrative implications of red-shirting a player.

I forget what it's called, but there's a Nile cosm card that would be good for a non-optional trigger, too. The card makes everyone, good guys and bad guys both, risk taking a wound whenever there's a possible complication during a dramatic skill resolution. We were playing the Day 1 Nile adventure last session, and I'd gotten that card as my cosm card. I suggested using it during a particular moment when we were all being chased, and everyone else went, "Nooo!" They didn't think it was worth the risk, since maintaining player health was more important to them than the chance to ding the health of the bad guys. In their mind, it was a "bad trade", or at least a bad risk to bet on. My personal mindset was more, "go big or go home", and I would have been willing to try, but I deferred to the consensus. If the card had been set to go off automatically at the next DSR complication, though, it all would have been moot. Boom! Everybody test.

"Trap" and the other Nile card will probably never see play in groups like mine, as written, but an auto-trigger for similar future cosm cards would help. Stop giving us the option of not suffering, and just make us suffer, already! :)

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Re: Card Questions

Postby Gargoyle » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:44 am

I hadn't thought of it, but given the above discussion, it does look like Trap! can be a source of some hard feelings. Sorry about your character Bob, but I needed the possibilities bro! It's true they don't have to play it, but some people will do so, even if it's not really a good play, and even in the best of circumstances it can be tragic in a way that isn't very heroic. And the damage mechanic doesn't really mesh with the rest of the rules of the game.

During the end of the Tharkold Day one adventure,
► Show Spoiler


So I would think about doing Trap! in the same manner. The Trap! still affects a random party member, but damage could depend on how many Possibilities you choose to receive, and not be expressed in wounds, but rather more standard damage, with a higher base:
1 Possibility: 10 + 1BD damage (this is likely to cause some shock)
2 Possibilities: 15 + 1BD damage (this is likely to cause a wound or two)
3 Possibiliies: 25 + 1BD damage (this is likely to cause 3 wounds on average)

That's potentially a lot of damage still, but at least it takes into account Toughness and it's likely that some can be soaked and there will be fewer instances of exploding bonus dice. It still could be seen as a dick move to play, but not as bad.

Or maybe the best thing to do is simply give the victim the possibilities? Does anyone think the RAW version is fun? I think it could be, but I have my doubts.
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Re: Card Questions

Postby Kuildeous » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:09 pm

I kind of like how the trap is capricious enough to possibly do only 1 Wound to a weak character or a mortal wound to a tough character. It's basically a game of Russian Roulette.

And in a highly magical and spiritual realm, the trap or hazard may not even be physical, so I wouldn't want to restrict it to just toughness.

But the recipient should be the victim. I'm certain I'm going to house rule this. As it's written, it's mechanically similar to the Orrorsh card where you steal a Possibility. The person playing the card gets 3 Possibilities, but the victim likely will spend one to soak the damage and may need to spend a second to enhance the Reality roll. So that is a -2/+3 shift of Possibilities. Actually, he may even spend a third if he fails to get an Outstanding success on the Reality roll, so it becomes a zero-sum game. Mechanically, Trap is a trap card (ha!).

So my house rule is likely going to be 3 Possibilities for both people. The player so that he's encouraged to play the card, and the victim who may need a consolation prize after this happens. I'm debating on allow a victim to volunteer for 1 Possibility each (which is zero sum for the victim—or worse—if he chooses to soak it). Of course, having a healer can help, but there's not much a healer can do if 6+ Wounds are inflcted.

And if I feel the group is too disruptive to use this card responsibility (not a problem in my home game, I don't think), then I will further house rule it.
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Gargoyle
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Re: Card Questions

Postby Gargoyle » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:01 pm

Kuildeous wrote:I kind of like how the trap is capricious enough to possibly do only 1 Wound to a weak character or a mortal wound to a tough character. It's basically a game of Russian Roulette.

And in a highly magical and spiritual realm, the trap or hazard may not even be physical, so I wouldn't want to restrict it to just toughness.

But the recipient should be the victim. I'm certain I'm going to house rule this. As it's written, it's mechanically similar to the Orrorsh card where you steal a Possibility. The person playing the card gets 3 Possibilities, but the victim likely will spend one to soak the damage and may need to spend a second to enhance the Reality roll. So that is a -2/+3 shift of Possibilities. Actually, he may even spend a third if he fails to get an Outstanding success on the Reality roll, so it becomes a zero-sum game. Mechanically, Trap is a trap card (ha!).

So my house rule is likely going to be 3 Possibilities for both people. The player so that he's encouraged to play the card, and the victim who may need a consolation prize after this happens. I'm debating on allow a victim to volunteer for 1 Possibility each (which is zero sum for the victim—or worse—if he chooses to soak it). Of course, having a healer can help, but there's not much a healer can do if 6+ Wounds are inflcted.

And if I feel the group is too disruptive to use this card responsibility (not a problem in my home game, I don't think), then I will further house rule it.


I'll have to give it some more thought. I'm really not a fan of house ruling cosm cards, but this one bothers me. I could always just take it out of the deck, but I feel like the basic idea of it is good, with the D&D theme of the realm.
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Kamelion
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Re: Card Questions

Postby Kamelion » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:36 pm

I'm currently playing Trap as giving 3 Possibilities to the person who suffers the trap. It just seems to run counter to the spirit of the game otherwise - screwing over your fellow Storm Knight to get some Possibilities is not very Torg. We'll see how it goes, I guess... :)
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