Three Glories

Padre
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Three Glories

Postby Padre » Thu May 10, 2018 6:23 pm

What is the in game rational for why we now need three glories in a zone rather than one? Is it because the High Lords are screwing with reality rules? Fallout from the Nashville incident and just the Delphi Council making sure it doesn't happen again? I'm just curious.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Three Glories

Postby TorgHacker » Thu May 10, 2018 7:20 pm

Fallout from the Nashville incident. And it's not just the Delphi Council being cautious. Core Earth was seriously wounded by it.

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Re: Three Glories

Postby Padre » Fri May 11, 2018 12:59 am

TorgHacker wrote:Fallout from the Nashville incident. And it's not just the Delphi Council being cautious. Core Earth was seriously wounded by it.

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Thanks, Deanna. Got it. And I'm stealing the description below the spoiler. You're right. It's perfect.

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Gargoyle
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Re: Three Glories

Postby Gargoyle » Fri May 11, 2018 5:30 am

I may have asked this before, not sure. Is the game effect from the Nashville incident a way to balance the stacking of increased hand sizes from Glories, sort of a "rules fix"? Or is it purely a way to make the campaign feel more desperate, or both? I like the latter effect, not a fan of the former as it feels like moving the goalposts.

I've been thinking about this and how I want to integrate into my campaign. They had their first Glory last session and the topic of what "infusing ords" meant. For them it was in the Blasted Zone, so while it did infuse ords, it didn't help them regain territory. But they are thinking about pulling stelae, I can hear the gears turning in their heads. And that's what I want, for them to think about it at least and eventually make an attempt.

Right now it's Day 106 or something, and there is still a lot of time leading up to the Nashville Incident. Some things I'm pondering:

- Currently I have a house rule that Glories don't give cumulative cards in the hand. I'd have to revoke that rule, otherwise it's very unlikely to get three glories in the same zone. But I did the house rule for a reason. I dislike the idea of hand sizes going beyond 5 cards. I feel it gets a little out of hand and puts too much emphasis on playing Glories. That said I haven't had that happen, just going off of feedback from GM's that have seen it and not liked it.

- Do I want to stick with the canon at all? Maybe the Nashville incident is preventable by them. I'm not sure I like how it feels like I'm punishing them for some background NPC's actions, even if it's really a rules fix or just a way to make the campaign feel more desperate. But punishing them for failing a mission, sure.

- I do like the Nashville Incident as a 'happening' in the campaign, and the comparison to Infinity Wars is appropriate. I really hate it when Marvel steals ideas from you guys. :D jk

I've got some time to think about it, campaign is at day 105 or so, and Storm Break is just becoming active. Going to put them on their radar. One way I will do that is with a rival group pf Storm Knights. "Frenemies" that seem to care less about how they win, and about collateral damage, should be interesting rivals and maybe someday enemies and/or allies. They should be pretty annoyed to see non-sanctioned groups going about competing with them instead of cooperating.

edit: incidentally I'm not completely married to my little house rule. I've actually revoked most of my house rules tbh. I found they weren't worth the additional explanation and the RAW works fine for me. I have less than a half page of stuff now, and those are really very minor.
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Re: Three Glories

Postby TorgHacker » Fri May 11, 2018 10:19 am

Gargoyle wrote:I may have asked this before, not sure. Is the game effect from the Nashville incident a way to balance the stacking of increased hand sizes from Glories, sort of a "rules fix"? Or is it purely a way to make the campaign feel more desperate, or both? I like the latter effect, not a fan of the former as it feels like moving the goalposts.



It's not a rules fix to balance the stacking from Glories. The only groups that's an issue for are experienced ones who have figured out the ideal way to cycle the deck. We wouldn't mess with the story to fix that, we'd fix the actual rule.


- Currently I have a house rule that Glories don't give cumulative cards in the hand. I'd have to revoke that rule, otherwise it's very unlikely to get three glories in the same zone. But I did the house rule for a reason. I dislike the idea of hand sizes going beyond 5 cards. I feel it gets a little out of hand and puts too much emphasis on playing Glories. That said I haven't had that happen, just going off of feedback from GM's that have seen it and not liked it.



Remember, the players aren't the only Storm Knights around. It's not three from the same people.



- I do like the Nashville Incident as a 'happening' in the campaign, and the comparison to Infinity Wars is appropriate. I really hate it when Marvel steals ideas from you guys. :D jk



Heh. :-)
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Re: Three Glories

Postby Gargoyle » Fri May 11, 2018 10:50 am

TorgHacker wrote:
Gargoyle wrote:I may have asked this before, not sure. Is the game effect from the Nashville incident a way to balance the stacking of increased hand sizes from Glories, sort of a "rules fix"? Or is it purely a way to make the campaign feel more desperate, or both? I like the latter effect, not a fan of the former as it feels like moving the goalposts.



It's not a rules fix to balance the stacking from Glories. The only groups that's an issue for are experienced ones who have figured out the ideal way to cycle the deck. We wouldn't mess with the story to fix that, we'd fix the actual rule.

Sounds good, and I think you've answered that before, but I couldn't remember.


- Currently I have a house rule that Glories don't give cumulative cards in the hand. I'd have to revoke that rule, otherwise it's very unlikely to get three glories in the same zone. But I did the house rule for a reason. I dislike the idea of hand sizes going beyond 5 cards. I feel it gets a little out of hand and puts too much emphasis on playing Glories. That said I haven't had that happen, just going off of feedback from GM's that have seen it and not liked it.



Remember, the players aren't the only Storm Knights around. It's not three from the same people.


True, but my group is the most important, and I'm only half joking, I really want them to be important, and I'm not sure I like them being dependent on other teams to refill a zone. But it can open up some adventure ideas too, and give them a sense of a "world beyond" that I am also trying to convey. For instance, things do happen when they're not around, and missions they choose not to do eventually disappear and bad things happen in those places. And I can also do some sort of random roll to see if a given zone has been refilled once or twice before if I haven't predetermined that. So perhaps I can work within it and keep my house rule. Pulling stelae isn't something I want to focus on, per se, but at some point I want it to be feasible if they get the urge.




- I do like the Nashville Incident as a 'happening' in the campaign, and the comparison to Infinity Wars is appropriate. I really hate it when Marvel steals ideas from you guys. :D jk



Heh. :-)
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mystic101
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Re: Three Glories

Postby mystic101 » Fri May 11, 2018 11:46 am

All three Glories don't have to occur at the same time, either. Even if they're spread out across different Acts or even completely different adventures, if enough time hasn't passed for the previous Glories to have completely "worn off", then over time they can still add up to the three you need.

It's gotta work that way. There's no way a single group, no matter how active, could get the eighteen Glories you'd need to protect everyone inside a pulled stelae wheel. Not in a short period of time. In addition to the difficulty of getting that many great rolls, the heat from the High Lord's response would be tremendous.

It takes time for a Glory to spread, so it should take time to wear off, too. A window of opportunity that's speed-of-plot long in its duration.

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Spatula
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Re: Three Glories

Postby Spatula » Fri May 11, 2018 11:54 am

mystic101 wrote:It's gotta work that way. There's no way a single group, no matter how active, could get the eighteen Glories you'd need to protect everyone inside a pulled stelae wheel.

Well, I think the answer to that is, "don't ever pull a stelae that's serving as a hub for six zones." Granted, you'll still be downing two zones a lot of times, which is still a lot of glories.

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Kuildeous
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Re: Three Glories

Postby Kuildeous » Fri May 11, 2018 11:59 am

TorgHacker wrote:Remember, the players aren't the only Storm Knights around. It's not three from the same people.


It could even feel more organic if other groups give glories. I had considered possibly kicking off an adventure where the Delphi Council knows of a glory or glories that would make the stela rip possible. The Storm Knights are sent to uproot the stela.

Now with this rule change, the Storm Knights can be told that two other groups have spread tales of glory, and the zone is ripe for another one. Go there and piss off the High Lord some. When you get the third glory, go rip up that stela.
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Re: Three Glories

Postby RamblingScribe » Fri May 11, 2018 12:12 pm

Caveat: I was about to post this, and went back and read it and felt it came across as more of a negative rant than intended. I'm not sure how to fix that, but know that I wouldn't be passionate about this topic if I didn't love this game.

My concern about the three glories rule is that there are so few stelae that connect to a single zone. My players have had five glories so far. One in the LL in a zone that would require at least one other zone to be charged before a pull, one deep in Aysle, so 5 zones would need to be charged, one in the blasted land, and two in the godnet, accessed remotely from a temporary CP hard point. They almost got one in Orrorsh, and we're asking about pulling a stela. I told them they would need to charge one of the adjacent zones as well, and they concluded that they could do a side mission to pull a stela, but not in addition a side mission to try and get glory in a random zone.

So yeah, that three is almost always going to be six or nine.

Which means that they will have to count on other storm knights to do some.

But I don't know how that works without me either saying that the heroes are lucky and someone else already took care of the neighbouring zone, or me setting up a mission with the idea that two adjacent zones are already charged, and the purpose is to get the last few glories needed.

Both of those options sound really contrived to me, and fly in the face of the idea that the heroes can fight the war by pulling stelae as a side benefit of playing the adventures. Which was something that I thought was a massive improvement from oTORG. I really want to keep that idea that I don't have to design or engineer opportunities for them to pull stelae. I also don't want my players to have to artificially extend their time adventuring in random zones all the time to farm glories. I actually think that's worse than the old paradigm of telling the story, giving it time to spread, and then having to come back later and get the stela.

If the rule is going to be three glories per zone, there needs to be another mechanism that is fun and doesn't interfere with missions too much, that lets the storm knights spread or upcharge the glory.


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