How much does an 'Up' do?

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Arcesilaus
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How much does an 'Up' do?

Postby Arcesilaus » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:33 pm

Hi, all.

A quick rules question that came up in tonight's game:

It was a dramatic round, but the Heroes had an 'Up' condition. How many total rolls can that 'Up' affect for each hero? For example, one of the PCs is disconnected at the beginning of the round and therefore makes a reconnection roll as a free action. Is he considered Up for this roll, or does the Up only affect the character's "normal" action roll? Next, he takes his normal action (after reconnecting or not) and is obviously Up for this one, unless (perhaps) he used up his Up on the reconnection roll? Is it one or the other, or both? Finally, at the end of the round, he plays a 'Flurry' Destiny Card and gets another turn this round. Is he Up for this action as well?

Thanks for any help.
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Big Lurker
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Re: How much does an 'Up' do?

Postby Big Lurker » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:39 pm

As far as I'm aware, the party has the extra die on every action they take that round. It encourages crazy actions, as well as multi-actions. I'm pretty sure they have it for the flurry round as well, but I'm not sure. If the drama card line applies to a flurry, that would mean a negative line would hit twice...

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Arcesilaus
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Re: How much does an 'Up' do?

Postby Arcesilaus » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:02 am

Big Lurker wrote:As far as I'm aware, the party has the extra die on every action they take that round. It encourages crazy actions, as well as multi-actions. I'm pretty sure they have it for the flurry round as well, but I'm not sure. If the drama card line applies to a flurry, that would mean a negative line would hit twice...

Yeah, I understand that it encourages multi-actions, but, no matter how many actions the PC takes, that's still just one roll, so obviously the Up would apply to all of those actions. But when you have multiple rolls (which doesn't come up all that often), what's the intent?
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Re: How much does an 'Up' do?

Postby ZorValachan » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:42 am

It only applies to the first roll:

Up: An Up result gives each character on that side an additional roll. Add this to the first roll (and roll again if a 10 or 20 comes up as usual). Ups are rare and very powerful—use them to pull off epic attacks and Multi-Actions. Note that Up results are not Possibilities, so there’s no guarantee that the second die is a minimum of 10.
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Re: How much does an 'Up' do?

Postby Wotan » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:25 am

ZorValachan wrote:It only applies to the first roll:

Up: An Up result gives each character on that side an additional roll. Add this to the first roll (and roll again if a 10 or 20 comes up as usual). Ups are rare and very powerful—use them to pull off epic attacks and Multi-Actions. Note that Up results are not Possibilities, so there’s no guarantee that the second die is a minimum of 10.

I'm not saying I'm definitely right & you're wrong, but that reads differently to me than how you're interpreting it.

I think the "Add this to the first roll" clause is intended to build on the previous verbage about getting an "additional roll". In the context it's being used here, "roll" is rolling a single D20, not constructing an Action Total.

If we're taking "roll" to mean the act of generating an Action Total, that first sentence in the Up description doesn't make much sense; it would imply that an Up gives an extra action, which clearly isn't the intent, because that's what Flurry does.
To my mind, it makes more sense if those first 2 sentences are just explicitly spelling out that the target of an Up gets to roll an extra D20 which is added to the first D20 they roll when generating their Action Total.

So, I'm not convinced that the book's description of Up actually helps clear up the question of which rolls might be affected during an Up round.

My personal take is that any Action Totals generated by a character, during a round that they're Up, get the extra dice. In addition to their main Action Total: If they're disconnected, their free reconnection attempt gets it. An extra action from playing a Flurry card would get it. Any Soak attempts, or Totals they're allowed to create, to resist enemy actions, also get it.

I accept that the RAI might be that it only effects the character's main action though. The only problem I have with calling it that way, for my group, is that it would feel kind of wrong if a Flurry card's action wasn't effected, & if I'm going to say that it works then it seems simpler to just say that all the character's rolls for that round get the benefit of the Up. *shrug*
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Re: How much does an 'Up' do?

Postby lurkingowl » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:49 am

We play it as one additional roll, like ZorValachan. I think the wording is pretty clear.

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Re: How much does an 'Up' do?

Postby ZorValachan » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:51 am

My interpretation is that it is the first d20 roll. Be it a single action or multi-action. But if a hero played a Flurry card, it would not count on the flurry action roll. Same with reconnection and soaking. If not there is no need to state first imo.

Basically a free possibility on the next roll without a minimum of 10.
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Re: How much does an 'Up' do?

Postby Kuildeous » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:20 am

Interesting. I interpreted that to mean that you add the second roll to the first roll (unnecessary to say but factual). I would've preferred that it specified the first roll in a round.

I've been running it the same way as I ran it in oTorg, which is that you get the up for the entire round, but I've had some clever misinterpretations before.
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Re: How much does an 'Up' do?

Postby Wotan » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:27 am

ZorValachan wrote:My interpretation is that it is the first d20 roll. Be it a single action or multi-action. But if a hero played a Flurry card, it would not count on the flurry action roll. Same with reconnection and soaking. If not there is no need to state first imo.

When you say "Same with reconnection and soaking." are you saying that you'd treat the these two circumstances the same as a Flurry, i.e. the Up wouldn't apply?
Funnily enough, these are actually two skill tests which could easily be the first roll a character has to make in a round.
Does a player at your table lose the chance to use the Up dice on their action, if villains go first and the PC needs to Soak? or if they're disconnected? (since the reconnection check must be the first thing they do in their turn, P179.)
That would be the implication, if you're going to lean on the word "first" being significant with regards to the question of what skill test(s) are affected.

Basically a free possibility on the next roll without a minimum of 10.

I could buy that the intent is that it only applies to a characters main Action for the turn, but I don't see the use of the word "first" confirming it. *shrug*
Baring official clarification we may just have to agree to disagree. :)
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Re: How much does an 'Up' do?

Postby Wotan » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:30 am

Kuildeous wrote:Interesting. I interpreted that to mean that you add the second roll to the first roll (unnecessary to say but factual). I would've preferred that it specified the first roll in a round.

I've been running it the same way as I ran it in oTorg, which is that you get the up for the entire round, but I've had some clever misinterpretations before.

Yep, that sounds exactly the same as the way I'm reading, & playing, it. Glad I'm not the only one reading it this way. :)
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