Wotan wrote:If we're taking "roll" to mean the act of generating an Action Total, that first sentence in the Up description doesn't make much sense; it would imply that an Up gives an extra action, which clearly isn't the intent, because that's what Flurry does.
To my mind, it makes more sense if those first 2 sentences are just explicitly spelling out that the target of an Up gets to roll an extra D20 which is added to the first D20 they roll when generating their Action Total.
So, I'm not convinced that the book's description of Up actually helps clear up the question of which rolls might be affected during an Up round.
I read it the same way as Wotan, which is not to say that Up DEFINITELY applies to every roll in a round, but the wording is vague enough that it might (hence this thread).
Part if my reasoning is that, if Up applies to EVERY PC roll that round, it's super-duper powerful! As we've seen, a single PC can make quite a few rolls in a given round, which, in a party of four PCs, means a TON of rolls that aren't going to fail. Add to that a Seize Initiative (or Flurry) card, and your Dramatic Scene is over in two rounds.
I mean, I'm all for the PCs being able to shine and do cool stuff, but it seems like a bit of a letdown.
a powerful condition but, with the exception of Flurries, most of the extra Action Totals that PCs generate (beyond their main Action) are defensive, or at least not directly offensive.
So I don't think applying Up to all the round's Action Totals is that much
more powerful than only applying it to the main Action.
Clever card play by players can magnify the effects of an Up round but, in my experience, players like to feel clever so I'm happy to let them have that. I'll even congratulate them when they pull off a blinder (like the time when they managed to collect both of each of the "Seize Initiative" & "Masterplan" cards, allowing them to keep a "Heroes' Flurry" Drama card in play for 5 rounds of a Dramatic scene!
)The agency which the card play gives players, to control the story & action, is one of the things which makes Torg such a good game, IMO. *shrug*
But I'm also the sort of GM who has no problem with having reinforcements show up, if the PCs are having it too easy & it makes for a better narrative, (so long as it's not immersion-breaking.)
That fight where my lot pulled off their "Flurry spam" still lasted a total of 6 rounds, & didn't feel like a walk in the park to them at any point before the Villain went down.
On the narrative level, they came out of it feeling like their PCs were the action heroes which Storm Knights are meant to be, & on the mechanical level had the satisfaction of having defeated ludicrous odds through skillful, co-operative play.
OTOH, sometimes, when they put a villain down fast, it's nice to let the players have that moment of feeling like they decisively kicked backside. Narratively speaking, it works for me in the sense of establishing PC competence/heroism, but it can also be a set up for the next tough fight.
GM: "OK guys, well done, it only took you a couple of rounds to totally kick Grendel's arse."
Player: "Cool, do we get our end of Act XP now then?... Why are you grinning like that?"
EDIT: gosh! lots of extra posts! It appears that the matter was resolved while I was collecting my thoughts (waffling on.) Doh!