Interaction and Timing

mica
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Interaction and Timing

Postby mica » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:18 am

Off Topic
From the Rules
Timing
Vulnerable and Stymied conditions last until the end of the targets next turn rather than the beginning. (Otherwise, using an interaction attack to Stymie a foe on your turn wouldnt have an effect if the opponent got rid of it at the beginning of his turn.) Characters who want to help their companions by making targets Stymied and Vulnerable should usually go first for their side. That way their allies get to take advantage of any negative conditions, and might even get to do so again if they go before the foes in the following round.


Character has flurry
He all-out attacks. He becomes very vulnerable.
His takes his second action. He removes very vulnerable.
Villain cannot get benefit of character's vulnerability.

Drama - Villain, then Characters
Villain makes character vulnerable.
Character acts. Removes vulnerable.

Drama - Characters then villains
Character acts.
Villain makes character vulnerable.
The next drama has to have villains go first to benefit from vulnerability.

Am I interpreting this wrong? It seems Vulnerable should be removed at the end of the opposing side's turn while Stymied should be removed at the end of same side's turn.
The only alternative is that you start splitting up villain actions during their turns which seems a lot of hassle. The would still allow the all-out attack and flurry loophole.

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Wotan
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Re: Interaction and Timing

Postby Wotan » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:27 am

mica wrote:
Off Topic
From the Rules
Timing
Vulnerable and Stymied conditions last until the end of the targets next turn rather than the beginning. (Otherwise, using an interaction attack to Stymie a foe on your turn wouldnt have an effect if the opponent got rid of it at the beginning of his turn.) Characters who want to help their companions by making targets Stymied and Vulnerable should usually go first for their side. That way their allies get to take advantage of any negative conditions, and might even get to do so again if they go before the foes in the following round.


Character has flurry
He all-out attacks. He becomes very vulnerable.
His takes his second action. He removes very vulnerable.
Villain cannot get benefit of character's vulnerability.

Drama - Villain, then Characters
Villain makes character vulnerable.
Character acts. Removes vulnerable.

Drama - Characters then villains
Character acts.
Villain makes character vulnerable.
The next drama has to have villains go first to benefit from vulnerability.

Am I interpreting this wrong? It seems Vulnerable should be removed at the end of the opposing side's turn while Stymied should be removed at the end of same side's turn.
The only alternative is that you start splitting up villain actions during their turns which seems a lot of hassle. The would still allow the all-out attack and flurry loophole.

Looks like you're interpreting the RAW correctly to me. :)

Splitting up villain actions isn't that much hassle.
Often, if there's a villain that's good at interactions it'll be a "boss", so I'd have the boss do their Interaction attack first (maybe with a multi-action if they've got possibilities, & other useful combat abilities), and then have any minions make their attacks, so they can take advantage of any vulnerable statuses inflicted by their boss.
NPCs with Gloater or Insidious can also use successful Interactions to steal cards from PCs, which is almost always worthwhile.

The Flurry thing is more "working as intended" than a "loophole" IMO. Flurries are powerful. All-out Attacks, or Aim actions, on the first action of a flurry, is just a smart way to use the extra action. This isn't limited to PCs though, NPCs could do it too. ;)
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TorgHacker
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Re: Interaction and Timing

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:15 am

Yep, this is all as intended. Usually a villain is going to have friends, so if they're by themselves, they're pretty much already screwed, and not being able to take advantage of Vulnerable is the least of their concerns.
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utsukushi
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Re: Interaction and Timing

Postby utsukushi » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:11 pm

And if you have a group of mooks - say, a dozen Shocktroopers, of which four have been trained as militant insult comics - that are going to try setting up Vulnerable conditions before attacking, you'd have to split their actions anyway, even if you're otherwise just using the Combined Effort rule to roll them together. Just like the PCs, they get to decide what order they go in, so the Mocktroopers (you know Mobius would name them that) would Taunt first, and then the Shocktroopers would fire.


I have wondered why those don't just apply to "the next Action they would apply to" - like, Vulnerable lasts through the next time you're attacked, and Stymied lasts through your next action. But just from a `writing the rules' standpoint that does, then, have to be clarified that it's only up to... the end of the next full round, I suppose? It does get more convoluted and probably brings up new issues, and certainly more remembering when what happened to whom.

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Re: Interaction and Timing

Postby Kuildeous » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:52 pm

utsukushi wrote: I have wondered why those don't just apply to "the next Action they would apply to" - like, Vulnerable lasts through the next time you're attacked, and Stymied lasts through your next action. But just from a `writing the rules' standpoint that does, then, have to be clarified that it's only up to... the end of the next full round, I suppose? It does get more convoluted and probably brings up new issues, and certainly more remembering when what happened to whom.


If you lose the effect after the first time it's triggered, then you can't have all the Storm Knights gang up on the Very Vulnerable T-Rex. I mean, you could, but only one would get the +4. And then if he rolls 14 over the DN, then that +4 is wasted anyway.

Likewise, being Stymied applies to multiple actions. Reality to reconnect? Roll to soak damage? All stymied.
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TorgHacker
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Re: Interaction and Timing

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:45 pm

utsukushi wrote:
I have wondered why those don't just apply to "the next Action they would apply to" - like, Vulnerable lasts through the next time you're attacked, and Stymied lasts through your next action. But just from a `writing the rules' standpoint that does, then, have to be clarified that it's only up to... the end of the next full round, I suppose? It does get more convoluted and probably brings up new issues, and certainly more remembering when what happened to whom.


Basically, this.
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