Questions about Concentration

iceshard87
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:53 pm

Questions about Concentration

Postby iceshard87 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:53 pm

Hello!

I have a few questions about Concentration spells/miracles/powers, and I haven't seen them addressed in the FAQ/on this board, so apologies if any of them are duplicates.

1. This seems like a no-brainer, but... Can I arbitrarily end a Concentration effect? If so, when and how? The Concentration rules only seem to talk about it being forcibly stopped by taking damage, but I would assume it is possible to just end them yourself. I would also assume it has to be done on my turn (probably as a free action), but is it possible to end a concentration spell during someone else's action?

2. (or 4, if we are counting) Can I maintain multiple instances of the same Concentration ability on the same target? (Adhering to stacking rules as normal) E.g., can I maintain an Enhance on my Dexterity and an Enhance on my Strength simultaneously, with the appropriate -2 on the second casting for a Concentration spell, and a -4 on all Concentration checks because I am maintaining 2 spells, of course. Answered by core rules, missed the text in Enhance.

2b. If I can maintain two effects on the same target, which have a repeating effect rather than a continuous one, do they both apply? (E.g., can I maintain 2+ Strangles on the same target to super extra squish them?)

Strangle specific question:
While I am mentioning Strangle, I noticed rules about only applying damage to a single enemy once in a given turn. Does this mean I can only poke them with a really pointy stick OR Strangle them, or does Strangle work independently because it isn't a damage total and is just automatic Shock?

Mind Control question:
And while I am asking questions... Can I Mind Control someone (Psi Power) that is already Mind Controlled by someone else? E.g., can I enter a contest of wills with that really big demon for the fate of my ally's mind? I assume no, but it would be interesting to be able to make a roll against the other Mind Controller's willpower to wrest control of the effect.

Edit: Derp, I forgot the question that brought me here in the first place.

3. Is there a limit to the amount of time I can Concentrate on an effect? E.g., can I keep Enhance up on my Mind for the entire duration of an extended duration test, such as survival? (Sure, I only roll once, but the resolution could take theoretical hours)

-Please note that I feel answering 'as long as you want without falling asleep/failing a concentration check' combined with answering yes to #2 would enter super munchkin levels of chicanery, so the questions should probably not be addressed in a vacuum.
Last edited by iceshard87 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Kuildeous
Posts: 1505
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:41 pm

Re: Questions about Concentration

Postby Kuildeous » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:43 pm

iceshard87 wrote:3. Is there a limit to the amount of time I can Concentrate on an effect? E.g., can I keep Enhance up on my Mind for the entire duration of an extended duration test, such as survival? (Sure, I only roll once, but the resolution could take theoretical hours)


Technically nothing in the rules preventing you from instancing the effect with Possibilities and cards to give you Outstanding and then having it up when combat begins. But this is where GMs can call upon common sense.

What does it take to concentrate on these things? We don't have any real-world applications of psionics, magic, or miracles, so we don't have anything to compare it to, but I'll toss in the idea that concentration might be equivalent to adding 13 to a series of numbers. Sure, you can sit there and mentally think: 169, 182, 195, 208, 221, 234, etc. But now take that level of concentration and try to go about your everyday business. You're driving your car, and you realize you missed your turn. Oops, you stopped adding. You step off a curb and quickly step back because you thought that bus wasn't going to turn in time. Oops, you stopped adding. Even boredom can be the culprit that causes you to stop adding. You're sitting there adding all those numbers and then you remember what you forgot at the grocery store. Oops, you stopped adding.

In reality, I don't think that concentrating for that long is simply plausible. So, you have this series of starts and stops and you're maintaining this ability all day long. Well, when do you spend Possibilities and cards? Is it at 8:03 when you wake up? Is it at 9:14 after your breakfast? Is it at 9:57 when you arrive at your contact's home? Is it 10:11 after your contact told you where to go? Is it 10:50 when you reach the place where the contact sent you? If you're particularly paranoid, you'll spend a Possibility and card at all those times, meaning you are tapped out when the real action starts.

So if this ever comes up in my game, I'll offer a compromise. You can maintain it all day long, but you're going to keep dropping it. And unless you are certain that you're stepping into danger, you're not going to spend a Possibility or cards. So when you're ambushed, you get to make a roll with no enhancements. Or you can choose not to roll all day and only roll when the action begins, in which case, you can spend your resources.
The Boneyard – Friends and foes within Tharkold's Blasted Land

Infiniverse Exchange Word template – Infiniverse Exchange template for MS Word users

User avatar
Aenno
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 3:59 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Questions about Concentration

Postby Aenno » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:58 pm

I made it simply enough - every roll based on Mind cause concentration check.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

User avatar
Atama
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:30 am
Location: Auburn, WA

Re: Questions about Concentration

Postby Atama » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:06 pm

I don’t think concentration is anywhere near the complexity of constantly adding numbers in your head. If it was, the rules would be vastly different. I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t even be able to drive more than a block before crashing into something if I was trying to count by 13 while driving. You can’t really focus on much of anything with your mind so occupied. Concentration in TorgE isn’t even close to that.

If you’re maintaining concentration on a power the only mechanical effect is that if you try to do another power it’s at a slight penalty (as if you’re Stymied). You have no penalty doing literally anything else. I think “concentration” is a misleading label; it’s not like keeping your mind focused on something, it’s more like putting a strain on your power. It’s not like driving when adding numbers, it’s like lifting something when already wearing a heavy backpack. It takes a bit more effort than usual to use your powers and the distraction of pain or something similarly distracting is enough to break that “concentration” and make it fail, but otherwise you can perform any task unhindered (even very complicated tasks).

We have a player in our group who has Telekinesis active most of the time. He’s good about announcing when he’s activating it and he keeps track of his penalty to other Psionic powers but he uses it pretty much casually. The rules seem to permit that. If you want to make it harder and impose additional penalties that’s your prerogative but clearly the game designers didn’t intend it that way or they’d have made concentration more limiting, put limits on the duration, and/or made it easier to break concentration.

For example, they could have made it so that for every active concentration, it’s considered one more concurrent task for multi-action. Maintain Invisibility and Armor, for example, if you take another action of any kind your roll is at a -4. Try to multi-action an attack and a run while maintaining those powers, it’s at a -6. And so on. But they didn’t want to make it as harsh as all that. If you find that powers that require concentration are too easy to maintain and have too little impact on the person wielding them, go ahead and make some house rules to balance things out a little. They haven’t been a problem for our group yet.
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
-TorgHacker (being tongue-in-cheek :D)

utsukushi
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Questions about Concentration

Postby utsukushi » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:19 pm

Argh! Now I can't stop adding 13s. Maybe if I focus on this it will get that out of my head.

1. This seems like a no-brainer, but... Can I arbitrarily end a Concentration effect? If so, when and how? The Concentration rules only seem to talk about it being forcibly stopped by taking damage, but I would assume it is possible to just end them yourself. I would also assume it has to be done on my turn (probably as a free action), but is it possible to end a concentration spell during someone else's action?

Stopping thinking about something seems pretty instantaneous to me. I'd say you can do it at any time.

2. (or 4, if we are counting) Can I maintain multiple instances of the same Concentration ability on the same target? (Adhering to stacking rules as normal) E.g., can I maintain an Enhance on my Dexterity and an Enhance on my Strength simultaneously, with the appropriate -2 on the second casting for a Concentration spell, and a -4 on all Concentration checks because I am maintaining 2 spells, of course.

Enhance says "different Attributes may be increased with different castings," so that reads to me that yes, you can cast it separately to apply to different Attributes. But yes, the penalties add up.

Ah! Finally got rid of the 13s!

2b. If I can maintain two effects on the same target, which have a repeating effect rather than a continuous one, do they both apply? (E.g., can I maintain 2+ Strangles on the same target to super extra squish them?)

I would definitely say that two Strangles on one target runs afoul of Stacking. If you get a Standard Success you could roll again to try to get a better one, but they wouldn't add up.

While I am mentioning Strangle, I noticed rules about only applying damage to a single enemy once in a given turn. Does this mean I can only poke them with a really pointy stick OR Strangle them, or does Strangle work independently because it isn't a damage total and is just automatic Shock?

I think that that's with a single Skill. If you Multi-Action and fire your pistol and stab someone in the same round, I believe you apply your Fire Combat and Melee Weapons attacks separately. It's just that if you have swords in both hands, that has a different (and purely defensive) effect. So I'm certain you can maintain Strangle and still stab someone. The real question is, what if you invoke Pyrokinesis? And truthfully, there again, I think the answer would be yes - Strangle is a continuing effect, so you're only rolling for Pyrokinesis this round, and that's allowed.

3. Is there a limit to the amount of time I can Concentrate on an effect? E.g., can I keep Enhance up on my Mind for the entire duration of an extended duration test, such as survival? (Sure, I only roll once, but the resolution could take theoretical hours)

I really like the counting-numbers comparison. Though to be fair, I do number sequences (usually either doubling or Fibonacci) when I'm driving all the time, because driving is boring. So that might depend on the person. I can see Atama's point, but it is called concentration, which suggests that it's being done in your active mind, not your automatic. "Concentration" to me sounds like you have to pay attention to it, and that uses energy - like, literally, it burns glucose. But while it's hard to keep up for a long time, it's not hard to do for a bit, stop for a bit, do for a bit longer, stop for a bit, do a bit more... Atama's telekinetic, for example, seems generally reasonable to me, if they just use it often and casually. If they like, keep two swords hovering over their shoulders all day long, that would be extreme, but if it's just, "Oh, the remote is out of reach. I pick it up with TK and float it to my hand," that's fine. I'd do that.

In game terms... for an extended test, like Survival, I would allow Enhanced Mind to work, but I would assume that just like the Survival roll may take place over hours but is really happening in a few short instances, you're Enhancing your Mind during those instances. You just roll once to keep it simple. But Enhancing your Mind when you wake up in the morning and just keeping it all day? No.

I really like Aenno's house rule, but for the most part, I think common sense works just as well.

iceshard87
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: Questions about Concentration

Postby iceshard87 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:40 pm

utsukushi wrote:I think that that's with a single Skill. If you Multi-Action and fire your pistol and stab someone in the same round, I believe you apply your Fire Combat and Melee Weapons attacks separately. It's just that if you have swords in both hands, that has a different (and purely defensive) effect. So I'm certain you can maintain Strangle and still stab someone. The real question is, what if you invoke Pyrokinesis? And truthfully, there again, I think the answer would be yes - Strangle is a continuing effect, so you're only rolling for Pyrokinesis this round, and that's allowed.


http://www.ulisses-us.com/TorgEternityW ... FAQ#Combat
FAQ wrote:Q: How do you resolve a Multi-Action against a single target when attacking with different weapons skills (e.g. with unarmed combat and melee weapons)?

A: Use the following procedure:

-Resolve the Multi-Action as normal. Use the appropriate skills with the usual -2 per additional action. If you're unskilled at one of those skills, no re-rolls on 20s. If you’re not Favored in one of those skills, no re-rolling the first die.
-For those attacks that hit, determine damage, including any BD from Good or Outstanding hits.
-Take the highest damage result and apply it against the target’s Toughness.


For attacks, it is definitely only the single highest damage total, regardless of the number of attacks/skills used to hit a single target in a single turn. Strangle isn't a damage result, though, it's just a flat amount of Shock, so my assumption (like yours) is that it would be independent of, and therefor stack with, an actual damage result from a regular attack at the same time. But I did want some clarification.

utsukushi wrote:In game terms... for an extended test, like Survival, I would allow Enhanced Mind to work, but I would assume that just like the Survival roll may take place over hours but is really happening in a few short instances, you're Enhancing your Mind during those instances. You just roll once to keep it simple. But Enhancing your Mind when you wake up in the morning and just keeping it all day? No.


And I could accept this. Actually, I could also accept a flat no to all of these questions, but that isn't really the point. A lot of things burn energy, though, and while concentrating (on a spell, or on reading a physics text book) is certainly draining, it definitely can be done all day if necessary, it's just exhausting. Heck, a survival check to traipse through the jungle in the Living Lands is per force going to be far more exhausting than maintaining a spell, as there would be lots of small scale climbing (over/around large trees, etc.) as well as consistent hacking at vines or the like. So I might not necessarily make it a hard no, but might instead make all-day concentration a factor. E.g., if you are handing out shock for a failed survival roll (to indicate that you make the journey, it's just longer and more exhausting), the people concentrating might count as having 'fatigue' for it, and take one extra.

utsukushi wrote:I really like Aenno's house rule, but for the most part, I think common sense works just as well.


Aenno wrote:I made it simply enough - every roll based on Mind cause concentration check.


This... I don't agree with. It is hugely restrictive. Because it means every time I make a Find test, even passively to spot an ambush, I am testing Concentration. Every time I attempt a Trick interaction attack (which I will, a lot, mind is my best attribute), I test concentration. Did I cast an Alteration spell? Better test Concentration.

It's one of those house rules that looks decent on paper, and might even be fine in groups that don't have a mind-based finger wiggler, but falls apart as soon as mind becomes their primary stat. I am simply going to chuck this character in the trash if I have to roll Concentration every time I try to Trick someone.

User avatar
Aenno
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 3:59 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Questions about Concentration

Postby Aenno » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:22 pm

iceshard87 wrote:This... I don't agree with. It is hugely restrictive. Because it means every time I make a Find test, even passively to spot an ambush, I am testing Concentration. Every time I attempt a Trick interaction attack (which I will, a lot, mind is my best attribute), I test concentration. Did I cast an Alteration spell? Better test Concentration.

Just in case (I believed it's obvious, but now I'm not so sure). Of course, I meant that concentration roll should be rolled if character channeling spell with Concentration (when concentration rules applies at all), not just every mind roll ever.

With this clarification...
Yes, exactly this. I did it for reasons.
1. It's represented in culture. Absent-minded sorcerers, telepaths and even priests are tropes with countless cultural artifacts. I wanted to create a way and reason to represent it.
2. It's logical. If you're trying to catch all that powers, with all their effects, and so, you ARE worse in finding things or noticing ambushes. When your mind is busy with controlling magical/psionic/divine powers, trying to prevent them going wild, it's quite hard to invent witty trick.
3. It's balancing. Multitasking is hard. If a player want to create universal mind characters, he is supposed to pay for this advantage. After all, Dexterity-based character WOULD pay multi-tasking penalty for trying to Maneuver, shoot and juggle for three apples at once; why should Mind be excluded? Concentration, by definition, is something where players attention is; if player wants to split his attention, it's multitasking.
And yes. If mind-based character trying to cast alteration spell, Trick somebody and find a trap, all at once, he would test Mind with multi-tasking penalty. As my lady used to say, "if you're driving a car and stroking the knee of the girl on a next seat at once, you're doing both things badly".
4. It's protecting me (as a master and as a co-player, because we shuffle GM position with same players a lot when playing) from characters built around one stat. If you're going to cast a lot around, it maybe a good idea to have something if your magic fail. Stories and game became more interesting this way.

But, well, it's my reasons. I'm not trying to make disagreement a capital offence.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

iceshard87
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: Questions about Concentration

Postby iceshard87 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:42 pm

Aenno wrote:Just in case (I believed it's obvious, but now I'm not so sure). Of course, I meant that concentration roll should be rolled if character channeling spell with Concentration (when concentration rules applies at all), not just every mind roll ever.

With this clarification...
Yes, exactly this. I did it for reasons.
1. It's represented in culture. Absent-minded sorcerers, telepaths and even priests are tropes with countless cultural artifacts. I wanted to create a way and reason to represent it.
2. It's logical. If you're trying to catch all that powers, with all their effects, and so, you ARE worse in finding things or noticing ambushes. When your mind is busy with controlling magical/psionic/divine powers, trying to prevent them going wild, it's quite hard to invent witty trick.
3. It's balancing. Multitasking is hard. If a player want to create universal mind characters, he is supposed to pay for this advantage. After all, Dexterity-based character WOULD pay multi-tasking penalty for trying to Maneuver, shoot and juggle for three apples at once; why should Mind be excluded? Concentration, by definition, is something where players attention is; if player wants to split his attention, it's multitasking.
And yes. If mind-based character trying to cast alteration spell, Trick somebody and find a trap, all at once, he would test Mind with multi-tasking penalty. As my lady used to say, "if you're driving a car and stroking the knee of the girl on a next seat at once, you're doing both things badly".
4. It's protecting me (as a master and as a co-player, because we shuffle GM position with same players a lot when playing) from characters built around one stat. If you're going to cast a lot around, it maybe a good idea to have something if your magic fail. Stories and game became more interesting this way.

But, well, it's my reasons. I'm not trying to make disagreement a capital offence.


I understood you mean only when I am sustaining a Concentration effect. Even if you didn't, I don't see what failing a Concentration test would even do if I wasn't concentrating. But lets look at your reasons.

1. Sure, plenty of absentminded people everywhere, magical or otherwise. People burn their houses down forgetting about the stove. But concentration test are actually pretty difficult to just make constantly without burning possibilities. Remember, the -2 is per conc effect, not per effect after the first (a-la Multi-whatever).

2. But I am not trying to catch 'all that power'. I am trying to sustain ONE thing. An Enhance, which may not even be on me, or a Telekinetic Barrier. (As an aside, remember that Stymied and Very Stymied would impose penalties to the conc test which is based off of Willpower, and therefor Spirit. It shouldn't be hard to make someone fail a Conc check if they are mind based and you really want them to)

3. Multitasking is hard. That is why every future spell/miracle/power I invoke has a cumulative -2 per concentration effect. It very explicitly doesn't carry over to other things, like concentrating while shooting, so I am not sure the designers intended it to be as focus-intensive as you are making it out to be. But I don't get your example. In your house rule, any use of a Mind-based skill requires a Conc test, you didn't limit it to multi-action Mind tests. Alteration is Mind-based. So casting ANY Alteration skill triggers a Conc test. But the limitations by RAW are already covered here in me taking a -2, why am I being further penalized for casting an Alteration, but not an Apportation (Spirit)?

4. Yes, you want your characters to have something to fall back on when their magic fails. I agree. But they already need that in the case of: Opposing dispel magic. Disconnects. Making a concentration check from being brained by a hammer. If you see my counterarguments for 1 and 2, failing Conc checks isn't a hard thing to do, forcing them A LOT is stripping away power that I can't see needing to be stripped. I am already taking penalties for doing these things by RAW.

And I agree, disagreement isn't a problem. I am simply stating my side of things, and debate is healthy as long as it doesn't become an argument. Please note, I have not actually PLAYED TorgE yet (nor will I, until Saturday), so everything here is me applying 20-odd years of RPG experience to a system I've had access to for 3 days. But your house rule, to me, seems to impose massive limitations on a very specific subset of concentration effects. (For example, Kinesis psi or Apportation magic doesn't use Mind, so won't test NEARLY as often as a Precog psi or an Alteration spellcaster) In short, I don't understand why you feel this is needed, unless Timmy Power-Gamer is going Concentration crazy, which to me would be a corner case.

User avatar
Aenno
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 3:59 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Questions about Concentration

Postby Aenno » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:21 pm

iceshard87 wrote: But concentration test are actually pretty difficult to just make constantly without burning possibilities. Remember, the -2 is per conc effect, not per effect after the first (a-la Multi-whatever).

Not exactly. You never roll concentration if it's the only factor - you are rolling concentration when you're trying to concentrate AND do something else - to suppress pain/cast in vanilla rules, or to push your mind on something else but maintaining spell. And as concentration roll itself isn't an action, it's not the factor of multiaction.
Essentially doing everything with concentrating should be multi-action - you're controlling a spell (1st action, need to calculate willpower), and doing anything else (2nd, 3rd, 4th and so on action, need to calculate skill you're using).

iceshard87 wrote:But I don't get your example. In your house rule, any use of a Mind-based skill requires a Conc test, you didn't limit it to multi-action Mind tests. Alteration is Mind-based. So casting ANY Alteration skill triggers a Conc test. But the limitations by RAW are already covered here in me taking a -2, why am I being further penalized for casting an Alteration, but not an Apportation (Spirit)?

In situation you're offering my homerule works exactly like in Raw. I'm not asking you to roll concentration twice.
You're supporting Energize on your ally. You're going to cast alteration spell.
First of all, you check your concentration. You're trying to, citing core rulebook, channel a stream of raw magical energy. You'll check concentration with -2 (for one spell you use). You're doing it in my rule or in core rules: "If a character suffers a successful interaction or damaging atack while maintaining a spell with a Duration of Concentration, or casting a spell that hasn’t been completed yet, he must pass a willpower or Spirit test." If you have Magister and casting TWO spells, you still roll concentration with -2. One spell on current concentration only (DN 12, therefore mage better have Willpower 13+, if he want to use concentration spells a lot; quite reasonable in my book).
If you fail concentration roll, you fail spell you're casting, and all concentration spells, by core rules, lost. "If this test is failed, the spell fails with all the normal consequences, and all spells maintained via Concentration end."
If you don't fail concentration roll, you make your action with normal multitasking penalties for each action you're doing, without concentration because it isn't an action, and with -2 per every spell you have concentrating.
It's core rules.

My rule is that every time you're trying to do something that takes a part of your mind (therefore Mind rolls), you still would need roll concentration on core rules. With -2 for every spell you're sustaining.
So imagine you're sustaining Energize and trying to Trick.
First of all, you check your concentration with -2, so DN 12. If you don't hit DN, you lost Energize, if you don't, you don't. Of course, you can use everything you have to improve your chances (and witch in my party already invented by herself focusing mantras, which give her this test Favored, by the way, but even by RAW you can at least use possibilities or cards).
Then you calculate Trick, without any penalties, no matter what's the result of Concentration roll was.

iceshard87 wrote:If you see my counterarguments for 1 and 2, failing Conc checks isn't a hard thing to do, forcing them A LOT is stripping away power that I can't see needing to be stripped.

Bullet spell is MA 8 (so only two cosms would take it contradictory - PanPacifica and Living Land), has DMG 13, has Range 100, hasn't any range penalties, can be used with multitarget as far as you have skill, have essentially unlimited ammo, is always with you, and you shoot with Apportation, which also is used on things like Fly, Haste, Mage Hands, Open Lock, Portal. But you'll need to take perk to be able to cast it.
Glock is TA 22 (so it's 4 cosms where it's contradictory - Aysle, Living Land, Nile Empire and Orrorsh), has same 13 DMG, has Range 40 with -4 (and without any penalty it's 10 metres), can be used with multitargets only if you have special perk or two of them, has ammo limit, can be stolen or lost, and you'll shoot with Fire Combat which haven't any other options but shooting. But you can shoot it without a perk.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

utsukushi
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Questions about Concentration

Postby utsukushi » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:52 pm

iceshard87 wrote:
utsukushi wrote:I think that that's with a single Skill...
http://www.ulisses-us.com/TorgEternityWiki/index.php?title=FAQ#Combat

Huh. You're right. I suppose that makes sense in keeping two different weapons more in line with two of the same weapon.

Strangle isn't a damage result, though, it's just a flat amount of Shock, so my assumption (like yours) is that it would be independent of, and therefor stack with, an actual damage result from a regular attack at the same time. But I did want some clarification.

Given that, though, I'm not sure I do still assume this. If you're causing, say, 3 Shock with Strangle, but you shoot them and cause 4 Shock and a Wound... that may override the Shock you're causing that target this turn. So Strangle would give you kind of a minimum, then - like, even if you miss, you'll still do that much - but I'm less confident it would add.

Aenno wrote:I made it simply enough - every roll based on Mind cause concentration check.

This... I don't agree with. It is hugely restrictive. Because it means every time I make a Find test, even passively to spot an ambush, I am testing Concentration. Every time I attempt a Trick interaction attack (which I will, a lot, mind is my best attribute), I test concentration. Did I cast an Alteration spell? Better test Concentration.

Thinking about this more, I'm a bit more ambivalent here, too. It made sense to me at first (as you say - it looks fantastic on paper), specifically for the point he made; if you're Concentrating on one thing, it would be harder to watch for ambushes, et cetera. But you're also quite right that the Concentration penalty specifically doesn't apply to anything but other uses of Powers, so why would activities other than Power uses interfere with Concentration?

It occurs to me that it also balances funny with Enhance, or anything much like it. If you're boosting Dexterity, whether for yourself or teammates, then you can do all your improved Dexterity things without risking the effect. But if you've used it to boost your own Mind, because probably you're the top Mind in the group, you can't actually take advantage of that without triggering constant Concentration risks and losing the bonus sooner than later.

Aenno wrote:But, well, it's my reasons. I'm not trying to make disagreement a capital offence.

Good call! Honestly, the Constitutional hurdles there turned out to be overwhelmin--- um, I mean, I, too, would never try to do that. That's preposterous.


Return to “Rules Questions (TORG)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests