Ethereal qestion

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Gargoyle
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Gargoyle » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:34 pm

Gargoyle wrote:(I'm starting to dislike that skill)

Out of curiosity, why are you really starting to dislike Maneuver, and not the other Interactions? I know we're getting a little off topic, but this question was pretty ethereal to start with...


The problem I have with Maneuver is very minor in that it has a much more narrow focus than the other interaction attack skills. It's used to "fake, feint (same things really), or tire out an opponent" and generally must be used while in reach. Fine, no real problem with that.

But unlike the other interaction attacks, there isn't really any role-playing involved. Taunt, Trick, Intimidation in my mind are vastly more interesting and it's easy to figure out player's calls if they are appropriate or not and it's easy to make them super unique. You can use them over and over and it can be different each time and they apply to a lot of different situations. Maneuver really doesn't. So my players will see it come up as an approved action, want the card, and try to find a way to use it. And I end up saying no a lot, which I don't like. I say no because they'll try to do what fits better as a Trick in my mind or they try to do things that the skill doesn't really allow like a ranged use of it, though I know it's also a GM's call and I can do what I want. Thing is I don't want to allow it in a lot of these cases because I feel it rewards Dexterity too much, and so I like it limited.

As written it's actually fine and so I'm not really complaining, it's just a social issue as I get tired of the card fishing that results in players constantly trying to make skills do things they weren't meant to. On one hand I like their attempts to be creative, but on the other it's toxic creativity because they're really trying to work around not having enough adds in the skill that more accurately describes what they are attempting. Dexterity being a popular attribute at my table, and Maneuver being a narrowly focused interaction attack, and cards being very desirable, it causes me to internally groan every time Maneuver is the approved action as it seems worse than the others in this regard.

Overall, I'm assuming we'll have more Ethereal type creatures with the Orrorsh book - including, probably, some that may have Possibilities. Aysle, Cyberpapacy, and Tharkold seem like good places for contributions to the field*, too. I can see having a party that really just doesn't have anyone who can affect them, especially in a game where everyone starts from Core Earth, which is not an unpopular theme. And yes, if the GM is then including them in the game, it would have to be a different kind of challenge than the usual brawl, but you're right... Interaction Attacks are still an option (earlier seasons of Supernatural have some good examples). Or it might be a DSR while the ghosts harass the party. Could be awesome, actually.


I agree it's likely we will see more Ethereal creatures, and some of them might be too nasty for some group comps. But I try to give the designers the benefit of the doubt and just comment on what has actually been released and I always keep in mind that in addition to interaction attacks and using them in DSRs and role-playing encounters, the party can also run away and go get the tools they need to finish the job, pretty common trope in fiction. Less common in RPG's I know, because players want to defeat everything and not run away, but I expect more out of my Torg players than the common RPG player. :)
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

ZorValachan
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby ZorValachan » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:20 pm

I am so glad TE got rid of Test of Wills. I had to explain 1000000 times the difference between that and Trick.
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Gargoyle
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Gargoyle » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:39 pm

ZorValachan wrote:I am so glad TE got rid of Test of Wills. I had to explain 1000000 times the difference between that and Trick.


OMG yes. :)
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

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TorgHacker
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:16 pm

Gargoyle wrote:
ZorValachan wrote:I am so glad TE got rid of Test of Wills. I had to explain 1000000 times the difference between that and Trick.


OMG yes. :)


One of the very first things I advocated dumping. :-)
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Staffan
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Staffan » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:20 pm

ZorValachan wrote:I am so glad TE got rid of Test of Wills. I had to explain 1000000 times the difference between that and Trick.

The difference between Test of Will and... Trick?

The one I always had problem distinguishing it from was Intimidation.

ZorValachan
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby ZorValachan » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:50 pm

Staffan wrote:
ZorValachan wrote:I am so glad TE got rid of Test of Wills. I had to explain 1000000 times the difference between that and Trick.

The difference between Test of Will and... Trick?

The one I always had problem distinguishing it from was Intimidation.

I never thought of it that way.

To me Test was 2 people doing the same thing against each other. A gunslinger stand-off, a game of chicken, etc.

Trick/intimidate is someone doing the thing against another.

But i digress and dont want to get a Test of Wills topic started
- Leamon Crafton Jr.
Infiniverse Exchange author:

The Paraverse: An entire alternate Cosmverse
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/237607/

The Knights of the Road: Archtypes designed as a Storm Knight group
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228365/

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Greymarch2000
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Greymarch2000 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:23 pm

I always figured to use Maneuver the player should have to reference the terrain or something along those lines.

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Atama
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Atama » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:01 pm

We always assume Maneuver has to be a physical action (which is why it relies on Dexterity) while the other interaction attacks could be verbal or otherwise intangible. For example, you can’t Maneuver when tied to a chair and immobile but you can Taunt, Trick, or Intimidate. (I’d probably give a penalty to Intimidate though; it’s hard to be scary when tied to a chair.)
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utsukushi
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby utsukushi » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:30 pm

Atama wrote:I’d probably give a penalty to Intimidate though; it’s hard to be scary when tied to a chair.

Watch Suicide Kings.

I mean... he has the advantage of being Christopher Walken, but it's still amazing how he controls the scene.

Torghacker wrote:One of the very first things I advocated dumping

Huzzah! Our Heroine!

Sarren
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Sarren » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:33 pm

I beg to differ on manuever while tied to a chair. In certain circumstances, you could actually do a maneuver.
Such as when you feint to bob one way but shift the other, with an outstanding being you shift and the chair breaks or something, and releasing you.


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