Ethereal qestion

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Atama
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Atama » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:50 pm

Sarren wrote:I beg to differ on manuever while tied to a chair. In certain circumstances, you could actually do a maneuver.
Such as when you feint to bob one way but shift the other, with an outstanding being you shift and the chair breaks or something, and releasing you.

As I said, tied to a chair and immobile. You’re describing a situation where you’re not immobile which is completely different.
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Gargoyle
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Gargoyle » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:59 am

ZorValachan wrote:
Staffan wrote:
ZorValachan wrote:I am so glad TE got rid of Test of Wills. I had to explain 1000000 times the difference between that and Trick.

The difference between Test of Will and... Trick?

The one I always had problem distinguishing it from was Intimidation.

I never thought of it that way.

To me Test was 2 people doing the same thing against each other. A gunslinger stand-off, a game of chicken, etc.

Trick/intimidate is someone doing the thing against another.

But i digress and dont want to get a Test of Wills topic started


Too late. :)

The gunfighters staring each other down at high noon, or the scene in Big Trouble Little China (Chinese Stare Down!) were the only examples I can recall of Test of Wills that made any sense, and I always equated it with Intimidate, but you're right about it being two-way I hadn't thought of that aspect of it, that's the real problem with it in actual game play, but wouldn't it be Intimidate vs Intimidate instead of Trick vs Trick?

Anyway, you're still right, we should never speak of Test of Wills again. Either way, it doesn't make sense in the game most of the time. lol
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

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Gargoyle
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Gargoyle » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:10 am

Sarren wrote:I beg to differ on manuever while tied to a chair. In certain circumstances, you could actually do a maneuver.
Such as when you feint to bob one way but shift the other, with an outstanding being you shift and the chair breaks or something, and releasing you.


So this got me thinking about maneuver some more. This is exactly the sort of thing a player will try to do. And I don't blame them. It makes sense. They want to use it to get a card from an approved action, with a player's call of escaping. I think that's legit and fun, and I might allow it. (And I think the idea here is that you ARE immobile for the most part, you're trying to break free, but obviously not totally immobile.)

But why is the villain stymied/vulnerable from it, especially if they aren't in reach? And why do they have to oppose the villain's Dex/Maneuver to get this effect, since they could do this when the villain isn't in reach? And if they don't, is it really a maneuver? Shouldn't it just be a Dex check? It gets a little weird.

I'd say by RAW the answer is that this clearly isn't a maneuver. But hey, GM's call is a thing that is even called out in the skill description (wisely in this case) so it's still legit.

But I dislike the position this particular GM's call puts me in, as I feel like some uses of Maneuver are cheesy and require too much suspension of disbelief. And players are motivated to put me into those situations where I have to make that call because they are motivated to get that card due to power gamer urges (which I'm ok with, not criticizing them...that type of play can be fun too.)

I digress though, I've derailed this thread way too much and apologize for that, I seem to be guilty of it more than most.
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

Sarren
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Sarren » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:13 pm

I see your point Gargoyle.
It would be more of a trick, like a feint with the shoulders or such.

Savioronedge
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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Savioronedge » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:11 pm

For me, a Manuever is an attempt to Move so that your target A) does something to react, or B) can't react appropriately.

In the chair-bound example, a valid Manuever would be, "I lunge forward tilting, making it look like I will be able to stand up and run away with the chair, causing the guard to grab the chair and break it as he slams it 'back' down and frees me." Obviously, player's call is the escape, but now a vulnerable/stimied result also makes sense as the Target is forced to react.

This distinction, Target based action, is a good way to keep Interactions separate from Actions (STR or Dex to free oneself vs Intimidate/Taunt/Trick/Manuever to get someone else to do it) and a direct way to explain the difference to players.

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Re: Ethereal qestion

Postby Savioronedge » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:15 pm

I forgot to add: I love the idea of using Interactions on "invulnerable" creatures. My favorite example of Trick is from Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the movie) when Pike uses, "Look, air!" and obviously gets a great roll. Properly played, even the "sand in the eyes" Trick against a ghost would work as the character would convince the ghost it would.


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