Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

fougerec
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby fougerec » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:00 pm

Our paladin took it as a starting miracle and it's served him well as an ace in the hole. He doesn't expect it to be used every combat or even every session but when he does need it it's there. He also tends to decide early on during a combat if he's going to need it and builds his pool to support it being devastating. He downed all four of the Avatars of Darok with it in the Land Below, for example. However that's because he plans for it and does everything he can to maximize it's effect and then builds off the high damage.

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Count Thalim
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby Count Thalim » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:19 pm

Greymarch2000 wrote:Oh yeah, but some kind of sacred item could be introduced that got rid of one of the limitations or something. :)
Just so long as it isn't something that takes another Perk slot.


Actually that might be a decent way of handling it.

You add more powerful 2 turn miracles, but then include a Beta level perk which reduces their time to 1 turn. Divine Avatar Requires 5 adds in Miracles, reduce the turn cost of all 2 turn miracles by 1 turn.

As long as there are sufficient miracles that could tag off it, the 2 turn limitation then becomes a trade-off option.
Do I want to spend a Perk on being able to utilise the big flashy miracles efficiently.
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Greymarch2000
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby Greymarch2000 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:23 pm

At Beta levels though those Perks start to really cost a lot of XP, so it really needs to be worth it

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TorgHacker
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:43 pm

mystic101 wrote:
For future spell/miracle design, I'd echo the posters who suggested avoiding multi-turn casting times, except for plot-heavy spells/miracles like Earthquake. As a player, I'd prefer not to regularly lose a turn of activity doing something that I'm doing all the time (it's more okay for some kind of special occasion type of spell). It's what's kept me away from Sniper-type builds up to this point . . . it sounds like it could be fun, but I've been reluctant to give up my every other action for the Aiming. So far I've opted for builds where I can instead always be doing something to contribute, to a greater or lesser degree, every single round.


And that's totally cool. We want there to be choices. It's totally okay if everybody doesn't care for X. Lots of people prefer to do consistent DPM. Some people like to go for the Alpha Strike. Personally I love the KV-2 in World of Tanks. :-)

Something we really try to avoid is the "no-brainer" choice. For instance, I think the gain language spell is pointless, and I personally would never spend one of my selections on that spell. But say, if lightning strike was able to be invoked in one action

This miracle probably not have enough Alpha Strike damage given the "two rounds to invoke" drawback. But we have to be reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally careful how much we boost the damage in this case, because then it could turn into a 1-round kill on the main villain and that isn't fun either.

Here's a peek behind the curtain. We're getting ready to really introduce these types of spells (Aysle) and miracles (Cyberpapacy). Earthquake was our first shot at it. I'm not entirely satisified with it. Which is why I'm polling you folks to see where the friction is with this one.
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Count Thalim
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby Count Thalim » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:48 pm

TorgHacker wrote:Earthquake was our first shot at it. I'm not entirely satisfied with it. Which is why I'm polling you folks to see where the friction is with this one.


Normally between the Tectonic Plates... :lol:
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Sunrunner
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby Sunrunner » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:53 pm

Well for my 2 cents on the issue your digging for Data on put me in the I hate 2+ actions casts WAY WAY more then I hate once per scene limits. I deal with the once per scene limit on Heal for example almost every session. But hey generally if were in a fight that required me to heal the same character more then once it went really really wrong. But action economy is always a concern in any game and I don't want to commit multiple actions to something unless it is ABSOLUTELY LIFE/DEATH or MAKE IT or BREAK IT. And things like earthquake which is a cinematic I move the story along spell not a I kill people in combat spell is mostly ok as well.

mystic101
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby mystic101 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:04 pm

TorgHacker wrote:For instance, I think the gain language spell is pointless, and I personally would never spend one of my selections on that spell.


I agree. I think I forgot to mention it back when you were asking for people's opinions about what the GodNet should be like, but this was something that I was hoping could/would be addressed in the upcoming Cyberpapacy book. There are a few fairly useless, or at least suboptimal, spells like Gain Language and Scrambler. I think it would be nice if they were used as prerequisites for other cooler, much more desirable abilities.

For example, what if Gain Language worked on programming languages? Maybe it already does, it's not completely clear from the description. If so, then it could really help out with Computer skill rolls. But more importantly, if someone then cast it inside the GodNet, where everything is basically a rendering done from computer language, it might give the user great insight into the virtual environment around them. It might allow for a Neo-like ability to "see" the programming behind everything, a la The Matrix. Maybe even manipulate it, like a translator changing around the words in a sentence, to have the "super powers" that Neo had. You pay your "tax" for the mostly useless Gain Language, but then it gives you the prerequisite for a much-more-desirable and powerful ability in the Godnet. That sounds like a super-cool ability for a dedicated cyberdecker Witch to have, or just for anyone planning to significantly dabble in that arena.

Similarly, Scramble doesn't do much on its own right now, but as a pre-req for something that affected machines in a much more powerful or comprehensive way? Now that's got potential.

Taking "duds" and then working them into perk chains that lead to bigger and better stuff might be a great way to rehabilitate those old, pointless selections. Turning lemons into lemonade, you might say.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby TorgHacker » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:19 pm

mystic101 wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:For instance, I think the gain language spell is pointless, and I personally would never spend one of my selections on that spell.


I agree. I think I forgot to mention it back when you were asking for people's opinions about what the GodNet should be like, but this was something that I was hoping could/would be addressed in the upcoming Cyberpapacy book. There are a few fairly useless, or at least suboptimal, spells like Gain Language and Scrambler. I think it would be nice if they were used as prerequisites for other cooler, much more desirable abilities.



Yeah, we're definitely introducing some spells that are upgrades to other ones starting in Aysle.


Taking "duds" and then working them into perk chains that lead to bigger and better stuff might be a great way to rehabilitate those old, pointless selections. Turning lemons into lemonade, you might say.


Yeah. I know a 'feat tax' isn't exactly popular, but it is a valid way that can, as you say, rehabilitate weak picks and without needing a rewrite.
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mystic101
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby mystic101 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:29 pm

TorgHacker wrote:Yeah, we're definitely introducing some spells that are upgrades to other ones starting in Aysle.

Yeah. I know a 'feat tax' isn't exactly popular, but it is a valid way that can, as you say, rehabilitate weak picks and without needing a rewrite.


That's good to hear!

I hope one of them is Mage Light. On my way to getting five spells, I spent a whole perk on it, mostly for roleplaying reasons. I keep thinking that maybe it'll come in handy in Orrorsh someday, if we run into a monster with Cloak of Darkness, but it hasn't happened yet. It'd be great if that one got some love.

fougerec
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby fougerec » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:42 pm

mystic101 wrote:
I hope one of them is Mage Light. On my way to getting five spells, I spent a whole perk on it, mostly for roleplaying reasons. I keep thinking that maybe it'll come in handy in Orrorsh someday, if we run into a monster with Cloak of Darkness, but it hasn't happened yet. It'd be great if that one got some love.


IMO if you have Mage Light and haven't had the chance to use it to counter Cloak of Darkness, then that's a failing on the part of either the GM or GM/Player Communication. I'm of the opinion that if a player spends a perk on things then that's signalling to the GM that they want this to play a part in things. Maybe not every session (my PC with Stela Sense doesn't find one every session) but often enough for the player to feel justified in the expenditure.


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