Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

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Greymarch2000
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Re: Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

Postby Greymarch2000 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:06 pm

If we wanted to get truly pedantic about this it says that a Player's Call can nullify a "Special Ability" for a combat not a Perk. Special Abilities are things like "Gloater", "Insidious" or "Horde" that some enemies have. In theory villain perks are off limits too if you're going for the most literal reading of the rules.

But I would be fine with affecting Perks, and considering one of the options the villain could easily choose is that the Storm Knight can't do ANYTHING for one round I don't see losing one perk for the whole combat as being all that much worse. The real question comes when you start looking at things like Spellcaster when they've taken the perk multiple times. Would it only remove some of their spells?

Ultimately though the GM should be limited in the same manner as the player with this, they need to come up with a good reason for it to work. Just saying "he makes you so angry you forget how to use the cyber chainsaw hand you have" is kind of lame.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:40 pm

Greymarch2000 wrote:If we wanted to get truly pedantic about this it says that a Player's Call can nullify a "Special Ability" for a combat not a Perk. Special Abilities are things like "Gloater", "Insidious" or "Horde" that some enemies have. In theory villain perks are off limits too if you're going for the most literal reading of the rules.

But I would be fine with affecting Perks, and considering one of the options the villain could easily choose is that the Storm Knight can't do ANYTHING for one round I don't see losing one perk for the whole combat as being all that much worse. The real question comes when you start looking at things like Spellcaster when they've taken the perk multiple times. Would it only remove some of their spells?

Ultimately though the GM should be limited in the same manner as the player with this, they need to come up with a good reason for it to work. Just saying "he makes you so angry you forget how to use the cyber chainsaw hand you have" is kind of lame.


The FAQ is not written to defeat pedantry. :lol:

Seriously though...as I said, one of the key words is "flavorful". It should have some sort of rationale in the fiction.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

QuarrelBlue
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Re: Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

Postby QuarrelBlue » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:13 am

Greymarch2000 wrote:Ultimately though the GM should be limited in the same manner as the player with this, they need to come up with a good reason for it to work. Just saying "he makes you so angry you forget how to use the cyber chainsaw hand you have" is kind of lame.

Actually, the cyber chainsaw issue is relatively easy. Neuroelectric pulse caused by too much anger went wrong and overloaded NeuralCable(NeuraCal) which control the cyberweapon, and/or extreme anger caused a fit of cyberpsycosis which leads to cyberware malfunction.

Personally, I think sudden malfunction of Perks like Bone Marked, Regeneration, or Mummy can be more difficult to explain...
(And, as a Convention player, I'm expecting and feeling need to be prepared properly for GMs who can declare much more insidious Perk malfunctions, like shutting down Bluespine while in deep underwater or killing Hard to Kill when you have already suffered 4 wounds...You know, there always is "GM's discretion", and there always are fellow players who feel such things "cool".)

...And, by the way, what happens if Sata Eater Perk stopped working when the poisonous flower is in effect?

vaminion
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Re: Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

Postby vaminion » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:09 pm

QuarrelBlue wrote:Personally, I think sudden malfunction of Perks like Bone Marked, Regeneration, or Mummy can be more difficult to explain...


It's pretty trivial. Your time spent in away from the Living Land and Lanala's direct influence means Bone Marked's benefit suddenly fades. The knight stabbed you with his single use regeneration suppressing knife. The miracle worked maneuvered you into a previously unseen magical trap that suppresses Mummy's benefits. A minor realty ripple or mini-contradiction did it.

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Greymarch2000
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Re: Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

Postby Greymarch2000 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:42 pm

vaminion wrote:
QuarrelBlue wrote:Personally, I think sudden malfunction of Perks like Bone Marked, Regeneration, or Mummy can be more difficult to explain...


It's pretty trivial. Your time spent in away from the Living Land and Lanala's direct influence means Bone Marked's benefit suddenly fades. The knight stabbed you with his single use regeneration suppressing knife. The miracle worked maneuvered you into a previously unseen magical trap that suppresses Mummy's benefits. A minor realty ripple or mini-contradiction did it.


It's supposed to be a result of an interaction attack, I don't know how taunting someone extremely well suddenly generates a regeneration suppressing knife...

vaminion
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Re: Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

Postby vaminion » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:03 pm

Greymarch2000 wrote:It's supposed to be a result of an interaction attack, I don't know how taunting someone extremely well suddenly generates a regeneration suppressing knife...


He pissed you off so much you got careless which allowed him to quick draw the knife and stab you with it. He's an Aysle knight. He fights monsters that regenerate. It makes he'd keep such a weapon on him and have perfected such a tactic.

Or if that bothers you: his taunt made your careless, so in your momentary rage he smashes a flask of Regen-B-Gone in your face which turns off your regeneration for the fight.

utsukushi
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Re: Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

Postby utsukushi » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:12 pm

Um, some of them are going to be a little stretched, but it's always going to be situational. I'm sure all of us can craft a scenario in which we could find a clever way to justify something like that when we control literally all the variables, but the important point, I think, is that we have to be creative and figure out how it works in the moment where it's actually happening. And Deanna's point, I believe, was that if the GM does want to do that, they should indeed only do it when it does make sense in the moment, and not just, "The Vampire gets an Outstanding success! Your Relentless Perk stops working." And presumably the same for the players, though I have to admit I'm actually having a harder time figuring out how you explain how you just Tricked Wu Han into not being Insidious anymore. Like, what, "Did you know everyone actually calls you the Invidious Wu Han? Insidious was just a typo," and then he loses the power until after the battle when he can look it up in the rules? (But yes, yes, I'm sure I could make something up if I really thought about it. I'm just not at all sure I could then make exactly what I crafted happen in a real game ever.)

If you can weave it into the narrative, great, it's confirmed that that can indeed be an option in both directions. If you can't, do something else - all of that is just to give people some more ideas to build from. I don't think there's ever meant to be a defining list.

Staffan
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Re: Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

Postby Staffan » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:21 pm

Kuildeous wrote:With great power comes great responsibility and all that jazz.


Hold on a second. Do you really want to mix Spider-Man metaphors with jazz? Think carefully.

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Gargoyle
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Re: Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

Postby Gargoyle » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:36 pm

Staffan wrote:
Kuildeous wrote:With great power comes great responsibility and all that jazz.


Hold on a second. Do you really want to mix Spider-Man metaphors with jazz? Think carefully.


Not even clicking that link, I know where this is heading and I've blocked that out of my memories.
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

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Greymarch2000
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Re: Player's Call: Locking out abilities on PCs

Postby Greymarch2000 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:27 pm

De-Insidiousing Wu Han was actually going to be my example originally :p


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