Vital Shot Feasability

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Greymarch2000
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Vital Shot Feasability

Postby Greymarch2000 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:04 pm

One of the core combat options in TorgE is the specific type of Called Shot for a "Vital Area" to gain essentially +4 damage. It is a ubiquitous option that some builds are based around and is a core component of the game.

The question then becomes, are they always available and if not, what's the threshold? Take for instance monsters with abilities such as Undead or Automaton which are immune to things that affect "living processes". Should that stop a vital shot? They may not have organs like the heart that can be targeted but there's plenty of ways to interpret "vital area", a shot to the head can stop almost anything, there could be points where the animating magic comes together, simply doing more physical damage to make it harder to continue moving around...

Then there's things like plants, slimes, spirits... Do you think that called shots for vital areas should be a stock choice that is always available to Storm Knights (unless specifically mentioned) or should it be GMs prerogative that no this animated door has no weak points? Or should certain "types" of enemies lend itself to this (ie elementals, undead, etc)?

Istrian
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Re: Vital Shot Feasability

Postby Istrian » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:09 pm

In my opinion Vital Shot is an extra benefit to using Called Shot smartly. Human enemies obviously have a vital area: the head. Whether anything else has a vital area is up to the GM. However I never tell my players if any area is a vital area, it's up to them to experiment (or research their enemies ahead of time in the case of Horrors) and find out where an unusual enemy's vital area is located (if any).

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Gargoyle
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Re: Vital Shot Feasability

Postby Gargoyle » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:40 pm

Greymarch2000 wrote:
Then there's things like plants, slimes, spirits... Do you think that called shots for vital areas should be a stock choice that is always available to Storm Knights (unless specifically mentioned) or should it be GMs prerogative that no this animated door has no weak points? Or should certain "types" of enemies lend itself to this (ie elementals, undead, etc)?


From the core book:
If a defender has no vital areas, such as an animated statue, the called shot has no additional effect.


Vital Blow is a subsection of Called Shot, and in the Called Shot section it says that:
The GM has final say on whether a called shot is appropriate for the situation or target.
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

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Greymarch2000
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Re: Vital Shot Feasability

Postby Greymarch2000 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:27 am

Okay, let me slightly re-word this then: what are some creatures that you as a GM would make immune to vital shots? Undead? Gospog?

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Re: Vital Shot Feasability

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:57 pm

Greymarch2000 wrote:Okay, let me slightly re-word this then: what are some creatures that you as a GM would make immune to vital shots? Undead? Gospog?


Anything that doesn't have vitals.

Do organs that are used for senses count as vitals?
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Istrian
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Re: Vital Shot Feasability

Postby Istrian » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:10 pm

GeniusCodeMonkey wrote:
Greymarch2000 wrote:Okay, let me slightly re-word this then: what are some creatures that you as a GM would make immune to vital shots? Undead? Gospog?


Anything that doesn't have vitals.

Do organs that are used for senses count as vitals?


I'd say no, since their loss wouldn't prevent the creature from living. But I'd say it would at least inflict Darkness penalties or Stymie the target.

I can't really think of many things that don't systematically have a vital area: even constructs have an energy source, see the Host or the Guardian in the Heart of Ukhaan mission.

The few creatures I can think that don't have such weak spots would be ghosts and perhaps golems created by a short-duration spell.

I'd say Gospog and undead still have their heads as vital areas, mostly because it makes cinematic sense: if you want to kill a zombie aim for the head.

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Spatula
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Re: Vital Shot Feasability

Postby Spatula » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:27 pm

After thinking about this a little, I think there are two categories: creatures that are uniform in composition (statues, oozes, etc.) and creatures that are unliving but not uniform (clankers, zombies, etc.). The first category I think is almost certainly no vital blows unless there’s something built in to the creature, like a magical gemstone on the statue’s chest or w/e. The second category is very case by case IMO. Clankers I would say probably not unless the player can make a good case for it. Undead are very varied in form and spirit so I think it would depend on the specific creature and the understanding of how it functions. Do zombies need their heads to function? That sort of thing.

GeniusCodeMonkey
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Re: Vital Shot Feasability

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:48 pm

Spatula wrote:. Do zombies need their heads to function?

Not if you have run Fire Of Ra. There are headless zombies in that, and they are not effected by vital blows.
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Re: Vital Shot Feasability

Postby utsukushi » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:08 pm

Istrian wrote:I'd say Gospog and undead still have their heads as vital areas, mostly because it makes cinematic sense: if you want to kill a zombie aim for the head.

I would say that for jiang shi but not gospog for exactly that reason. The gospog should be different from zombies, and you can't kill a plant by shooting it in the head.

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Re: Vital Shot Feasability

Postby GeniusCodeMonkey » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:46 pm

utsukushi wrote:
Istrian wrote:I'd say Gospog and undead still have their heads as vital areas, mostly because it makes cinematic sense: if you want to kill a zombie aim for the head.

I would say that for jiang shi but not gospog for exactly that reason. The gospog should be different from zombies, and you can't kill a plant by shooting it in the head.


Agreed.
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