Faith & Transformation

Wakshani
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Re: Faith & Transformation

Postby Wakshani » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:26 am

utsukushi wrote:...And brewing potions of Strength Enhancement for small gaulish villages, of course.


And now I have the Gummi Bears theme in my head.

Augh.

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TiaMaster
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Re: Faith & Transformation

Postby TiaMaster » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:21 pm

So "any list she has access to" doesn't mean that a character can be taught a miracle from a different cosm? Why say that at all then?

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Atama
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Re: Faith & Transformation

Postby Atama » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:50 pm

TiaMaster wrote:So "any list she has access to" doesn't mean that a character can be taught a miracle from a different cosm? Why say that at all then?

Note that the books have examples of Miracle lists, but they’re not all-inclusive. I don’t believe there are any Miracles explicitly limited to any particular cosm.

There are three barriers to learning a Miracle: Belonging to a belief system that supports it (Miracle list, which can be put together with GM approval), Faith score requirement, and Spirit axiom. Now that last one does tend to make certain Miracles off-limits to certain cosms, for all intents and purposes, but theoretically someone from the Living Land with a high enough Faith score could learn any Miracle with the GM’s approval.
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Spatula
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Re: Faith & Transformation

Postby Spatula » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:17 pm

I don’t think axiom is a strict limit, though. A Pulp Sorcerer can learn invisibility, which is above the Nile Magic axiom, and several Core Earth faiths have miracles on their list that are above Earth’s axiom.

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Atama
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Re: Faith & Transformation

Postby Atama » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:13 pm

Spatula wrote:I don’t think axiom is a strict limit, though. A Pulp Sorcerer can learn invisibility, which is above the Nile Magic axiom, and several Core Earth faiths have miracles on their list that are above Earth’s axiom.

Good point. Nothing says you can’t take it, just that it’s a contradiction. So if you don’t mind it always being a 1-case and sometimes a 4-case, go for it.
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
-TorgHacker (being tongue-in-cheek :D)

Brandon_C
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Re: Faith & Transformation

Postby Brandon_C » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:02 am

Atama wrote:
Spatula wrote:I don’t think axiom is a strict limit, though. A Pulp Sorcerer can learn invisibility, which is above the Nile Magic axiom, and several Core Earth faiths have miracles on their list that are above Earth’s axiom.

Good point. Nothing says you can’t take it, just that it’s a contradiction. So if you don’t mind it always being a 1-case and sometimes a 4-case, go for it.


Wouldn't Adaptable or Axiom Increase help a CE character in this?

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Atama
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Re: Faith & Transformation

Postby Atama » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:54 am

Brandon_C wrote:
Atama wrote:
Spatula wrote:I don’t think axiom is a strict limit, though. A Pulp Sorcerer can learn invisibility, which is above the Nile Magic axiom, and several Core Earth faiths have miracles on their list that are above Earth’s axiom.

Good point. Nothing says you can’t take it, just that it’s a contradiction. So if you don’t mind it always being a 1-case and sometimes a 4-case, go for it.


Wouldn't Adaptable or Axiom Increase help a CE character in this?

Adaptable would be potentially useful. CE’s Spirit axiom is relatively low and that Perk would pretty much mean they only cause contradictions from Miracles in Tharkold, PP, and CE. All other cosms have a 16 or higher and would support all but a few Miracles.

Axiom Increase on the other hand is pretty useless. Going from a 10 to 11 does pretty much nothing. You’d have to buy the Perk numerous times before it matters and that’s a massive waste of XP.
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
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Brandon_C
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Re: Faith & Transformation

Postby Brandon_C » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:11 am

Atama wrote:Axiom Increase on the other hand is pretty useless. Going from a 10 to 11 does pretty much nothing. You’d have to buy the Perk numerous times before it matters and that’s a massive waste of XP.


A +1 to the Magic Axiom would give a CE character access to 6 more spells, which is not useless.

Edit: looking back, I see that the topic has strayed a bit from only Miracles to Miracles, Spells, and Psionics. I'll agree Axiom Increase isn't much use for Miracles or Psionics unless taken multiple times.

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TiaMaster
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Re: Faith & Transformation

Postby TiaMaster » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:19 pm

If alternatively you start with the Miracles Perk, you gain access to the Keta Kalles list, but cannot get access to the Optant list (because you have to take the Optant Perk to do so). You select your two optional miracles from the Keta Kalles list. Then if you want additional miracles you can select Miracles again and choose one miracle from the Keta Kalles list or you select the Optant Perk, then you can access to the Optant list, and then can choose your two new optional miracles from either the Optant or Keta Kalles lists. In either case, you can then select the Miracles Perk again to select a miracle from either list.


Optant is obvious, but only being able to choose from the Keta Kalles list is not from what I understand now.

QuarrelBlue
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Re: Faith & Transformation

Postby QuarrelBlue » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:56 pm

It seems like that the Optant transformed to Core Earth will lose the Optant Perk and Optant-only miracles, but they still can retain Keta Kalles faith and have any micarle on Keta Kalles list(even contradicting one) with Miracles Perk.
Miracles - by axiom, or religion?

I presonally hope that there would be an option for the transformed to change their religion and/or miracles more according to the new reality, though...


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