Narrative Impact of standard/Good success on interaction attacks

graethynne
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Narrative Impact of standard/Good success on interaction attacks

Postby graethynne » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:46 pm

Heyo,

Recognizing that "GM's Call" is the ultimate answer here I wanted a little guidance on the "rules as intended" and also "how you play it at your table" for the narrative impact of interaction attacks that are successful but fall short of a Player's call. Basically I have clarified for my players in the past "Taunt/trick/intimidate are not mind control". At the same time, I can get behind a successful taunt drawing fire, and a successful intimidate encouraging attacking someone else all else being equal. But if a bad guy has a specific reason to be targeting someone in particular it doesn't seem like standard/good successes should be able to override that.

*spoiler warning for an Aysle Delphi Council Book Mission*

What brought this up right now was reading over Return to CartherHaugh from the Aysle DC book, and this line "...the Storm Knights must taunt the witch to keep her focused on them." Based on the way the encounter is explained, logically the witch in question should all but ignore the Storm Knights and take out the NPC as quickly as possible. Obviously that is lame, so it let me to reconsider interaction attacks.

Thoughts? Thanks,

Grae

PS - I have also had PCs try to use successful Trick attacks to get bad guys to attack each other. Which is perfect on a Player's call as it gives the flavor for taking out a minor enemy on player's call. But that seems awfully powerful if applicable on a standard/good result.

ZorValachan
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Re: Narrative Impact of standard/Good success on interaction attacks

Postby ZorValachan » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:10 pm

Standard/good only ever equal stymied/very stymied or vulnerable/very vunerable at my table. If i ran that encounter I'd decide if it was a specific instance overriding the general rule, or if it needed a full Player's call on Outstanding.

I personally don't like the idea of a standard/good interaction attack doing more. That's precisely why the Player's call is named Player's call IMO. Getting an opponent to target something else on a standard/good success just seems like giving them an Outstanding success for free.
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Re: Narrative Impact of standard/Good success on interaction attacks

Postby Savioronedge » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:22 pm

graethynne wrote:Heyo,

Recognizing that "GM's Call" is the ultimate answer here I wanted a little guidance on the "rules as intended" and also "how you play it at your table" for the narrative impact of interaction attacks that are successful but fall short of a Player's call. Basically I have clarified for my players in the past "Taunt/trick/intimidate are not mind control". At the same time, I can get behind a successful taunt drawing fire, and a successful intimidate encouraging attacking someone else all else being equal. But if a bad guy has a specific reason to be targeting someone in particular it doesn't seem like standard/good successes should be able to override that.

*spoiler warning for an Aysle Delphi Council Book Mission*

What brought this up right now was reading over Return to CartherHaugh from the Aysle DC book, and this line "...the Storm Knights must taunt the witch to keep her focused on them." Based on the way the encounter is explained, logically the witch in question should all but ignore the Storm Knights and take out the NPC as quickly as possible. Obviously that is lame, so it let me to reconsider interaction attacks.

Thoughts? Thanks,

Grae

PS - I have also had PCs try to use successful Trick attacks to get bad guys to attack each other. Which is perfect on a Player's call as it gives the flavor for taking out a minor enemy on player's call. But that seems awfully powerful if applicable on a standard/good result.


Narratively, you can describe how the Interaction causes the ±2/4. In the example of the Trick to get opponents to shoot each other, a Standard or Good success draws the enemy's attention away causing the Stymied/Vulnerable effect(s) though not quite getting the enemy to actually shoot at the player's intended target.

In the adventure, the GM can rule the target is specifically Vulnerable to Taunt such that any success will draw attention, or just go with the standard penalties and wait for the Vulnerables to add up and allow the Player's Call.

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Greymarch2000
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Re: Narrative Impact of standard/Good success on interaction attacks

Postby Greymarch2000 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:27 pm

I agree that allowing interaction attacks to do more than they already do could be unbalancing. Instead I think the better way to look at it is less as a bonus to that skill but a specific rule for the Scene in question. There are often monsters with special called shots rules so I don't see any problems with ones with additional taunting/other interaction rules.

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Yoric
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Re: Narrative Impact of standard/Good success on interaction attacks

Postby Yoric » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:54 am

I'm not entirely sure I understand your question.

In case it helps, at my table, we never roll before having described what we intend to achieve. So, there's no "I attack" or "I taunt", but "I do my best to keep him off-balance, attempting to find an opening in his guard" or "Let's see if I can find an insult that will hurt enough that she's going to look for a repartee instead of focusing on her target."

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Re: Narrative Impact of standard/Good success on interaction attacks

Postby fougerec » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:47 am

I find I get a lot of mileage out of the concepts of intent and approach. If the player's intent is clear I know how to describe the mechanics of Stymied/Vulnerable and already know the Player's Call result. The approach is simply what skill is being used. I find when it comes to the interaction attacks that they are are very delicately balanced and coloring outside the lines can rapidly cause issues.

In the case of the encounter I'd likely just make them need to get the Player's Call to focus attention on the taunt. Sure it may be difficult but that's what cards and possibilities and planning are for.

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pkitty
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Re: Narrative Impact of standard/Good success on interaction attacks

Postby pkitty » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:06 pm

If a player wants to "draw aggro" as an interaction attack, it might be interesting to ask if they're willing to make the foe Stymied to hit anyone except the taunter. Doing so would give a mechanical justification for the NPC possibly changing tack, without adding extra functionality (in fact, you're technically reducing the functionality, but in a way that works toward the party's goals).

That said, it's important to note that not every use of an interaction skill needs to be an interaction attack! I've had players roll maneuver to get through a closing door, intimidation to hold their own in an argument, and trick to impersonate someone while disguised. It would be absolutely reasonable to let them roll taunt vs the foe's Mind or Spirit (modified for the situation), not to inflict any conditions on the foe, but to see if they can convince the foe to attack them instead. It's really no different than giving them a persuasion roll to try to calm a person down, just in reverse.
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Atama
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Re: Narrative Impact of standard/Good success on interaction attacks

Postby Atama » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:45 pm

ZorValachan wrote:Standard/good only ever equal stymied/very stymied or vulnerable/very vunerable at my table. If i ran that encounter I'd decide if it was a specific instance overriding the general rule, or if it needed a full Player's call on Outstanding.

I personally don't like the idea of a standard/good interaction attack doing more. That's precisely why the Player's call is named Player's call IMO. Getting an opponent to target something else on a standard/good success just seems like giving them an Outstanding success for free.

This is how the rules are written, and how we play at our table. If you want to do anything but make someone Stymied or Vulnerable with an interaction attack, you need an Outstanding success.

With a mook that usually means taking them out (often in a humorous way) though just about anything plausible can be done instead. With a bigger villain on a Player’s Call result we default to having them lose a turn (again with some narration), though again if something else is desired and plausible we work that out.

Maybe a good house rule is that you can have some reasonable alternatives to a Good result. Taunt can draw fire, Intimidate does the opposite (they target someone else), Maneuver lets you move them to a spot of your choosing, Trick lets you make a Stealth roll as a free action then they lose track of you for a round, etc. Something less powerful than what you would normally get for a Player’s Call but adds some flexibility and imagination to the system.
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graethynne
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Re: Narrative Impact of standard/Good success on interaction attacks

Postby graethynne » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:39 pm

Thanks all! Good to see my concerns seem in line with the broader base of experiences.


Atama wrote:Maybe a good house rule is that you can have some reasonable alternatives to a Good result. Taunt can draw fire, Intimidate does the opposite (they target someone else), Maneuver lets you move them to a spot of your choosing, Trick lets you make a Stealth roll as a free action then they lose track of you for a round, etc. Something less powerful than what you would normally get for a Player’s Call but adds some flexibility and imagination to the system.


This is the kind of thing I am toying with. Maybe as an option instead of the second condition on a Good outcome. I'll ponder.

Grae


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