Vow of nonViolence

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TorgHacker
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Re: Vow of nonViolence

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:06 am

Badger3d wrote:Ah, so the -2 is in effect whether they spend a possibility or not, makes the perk much better.


No, the -2 doesn't come into this at all.

It's when YOU make a physical attack that it's applied.
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Badger3d
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Re: Vow of nonViolence

Postby Badger3d » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:49 am

TorgHacker wrote:
No, the -2 doesn't come into this at all.

It's when YOU make a physical attack that it's applied.


Ouch, didn't see that at all, there goes my idea for using a lasso when attack was the approved action.

Except as a stepping stone to Pacifist, Vow of NonViolence isn't seeming that useful, probably better to just soak the damage of the hits.

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Re: Vow of nonViolence

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:54 am

Badger3d wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
No, the -2 doesn't come into this at all.

It's when YOU make a physical attack that it's applied.


Ouch, didn't see that at all, there goes my idea for using a lasso when attack was the approved action.

Except as a stepping stone to Pacifist, Vow of NonViolence isn't seeming that useful, probably better to just soak the damage of the hits.


Remember it's an attack against anyone...not just on you...that you get to use this Perk on.
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Re: Vow of nonViolence

Postby Badger3d » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:21 am

TorgHacker wrote:
Remember it's an attack against anyone...not just on you...that you get to use this Perk on.


Oh, another thing about this I didn't realize, might want to add this info to the FAQ, I was very off on how this perk worked.

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Re: Vow of nonViolence

Postby Savioronedge » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:31 pm

Badger3d wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
Remember it's an attack against anyone...not just on you...that you get to use this Perk on.


Oh, another thing about this I didn't realize, might want to add this info to the FAQ, I was very off on how this perk worked.


I didn't FTC (Fine Tooth Comb) this Perk when I read it, but I didn't get the "Anyone" impression either. This thread has made me realize the "-2" section would be more understandable in a separate paragraph, but I didn't see the problem originally, either.

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Re: Vow of nonViolence

Postby pkitty » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:07 pm

TorgHacker wrote:Remember it's an attack against anyone...not just on you...that you get to use this Perk on.

I didn't catch that at all, so this is a helpful clarification. To me, "an opponent" implies your personal opponent -- the foe that's trying to do stuff to you. Thanks for straightening that out! Might be worth adding to the FAQ?
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Re: Vow of nonViolence

Postby utsukushi » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:14 pm

Totally agree that the -2 line would have worked better in the second paragraph, where it's talking about the character making attacks.

But the wording about using it after an opponent has rolled an attack... that seemed clear to me. That's why Opponent Fails is actually an Errata and not just a clarification - its original wording did let anyone cancel any opponent action. Vow of Nonviolence seems written with that actively in mind - it's narrower in scope (just attacks) and more limited in effect (force a reroll, but can't guarantee failure, or even to make it worse - just definitely won't make it better), and, of course, costs a Possibility. It's a little bit of a back-door to Negation, though again, narrower in scope... but speaking of which, look at Negation. It's worded with that open "an opponent," "an attribute or skill test", and it expressly works on tests that aren't targeting you personally.

We're constantly asking for game devs to be, like, super careful in their grammar, because when they get too casual we have to start interpreting and it gets twisty. This is a place where I think they nailed it. If you follow the grammar, as it is (pretty consistently) used throughout the books, the intent is perfectly clear.

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Re: Vow of nonViolence

Postby Savioronedge » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:06 pm

For explanation of Grammar requests:

I'm giving up drinking for a month.
Sorry, bad punctuation.
I'm giving up. Drinking for a month.

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Re: Vow of nonViolence

Postby Atama » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:46 pm

Image
“You are a bad person, and should feel bad.”
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Re: Vow of nonViolence

Postby mystic101 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:01 pm

I'm glad to get clarification for how VoNV works, too.

I'd think it would combo pretty well with Negation. That way, you wouldn't need to re-roll the villain's Possibility, just cancel it completely and then reroll the base result.

It sounds pretty darn effective. Villain gets a big base hit in? Reroll, and then you'll probably pare it down quite a bit. Villain tries to upgrade with a Possibility? Shut that down entirely. In general, it could really flatten out a bad guy's overall luck.


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