Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

User avatar
blackwind1kaze
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:59 pm

Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby blackwind1kaze » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:51 pm

Alright, cool. Out of curiousity, has there been any thought to reality shifted characters? Like a perk that requires you to be a dwarf but of now orrosh reality?
I don't always GM, but when i do, I go out in style :ugeek:

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4871
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:37 pm

Not at the moment.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

User avatar
Gargoyle
Posts: 1787
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:20 pm

Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby Gargoyle » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:55 pm

How are contradictions with the Radiant perk handled? Would it be considered passive and only trigger a disconnection with a disadvantage on the conflict line (upon flipping the first card when going into rounds), or would you make a contradiction check immediately when entering combat before flipping the first card, with a mishap (and disconnection) on a 1? The timing of when Radiant is used just makes it a little uncertain for me on how to treat it.

Also for Racial perks, unlike Light and Darkness, it doesn't say, so I'm assuming the answer is no to keep things simple, but are racial perks considered contradictions in other cosms? If so, I'm guessing whether you handle disconnection depends on if they use a die roll (mishap) or not (passive, card line).
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4871
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:36 pm

Gargoyle wrote:How are contradictions with the Radiant perk handled? Would it be considered passive and only trigger a disconnection with a disadvantage on the conflict line (upon flipping the first card when going into rounds), or would you make a contradiction check immediately when entering combat before flipping the first card, with a mishap (and disconnection) on a 1? The timing of when Radiant is used just makes it a little uncertain for me on how to treat it.

Also for Racial perks, unlike Light and Darkness, it doesn't say, so I'm assuming the answer is no to keep things simple, but are racial perks considered contradictions in other cosms? If so, I'm guessing whether you handle disconnection depends on if they use a die roll (mishap) or not (passive, card line).


Whether or not a Perk causes a contradiction is based on whether it is supported by the cosm's World Laws (represented by having a star bullet point on the Prereq as opposed to a dot), not that it's restricted to people from that cosm. This applies especially to the racial Perks.

So Radiant is supported by the Law of Light and Darkness, but because there's no roll when it's used, it's a passive contradiction. Passive contradictions are only tested for when a Surge comes up on the conflict line (though it can be any round's card, not just the first). In that case, the person makes a single contradiction test, which is a Four Case if the character has any Four Case contradictions. In this circumstance it would just be a One Case.

Racial Perks don't necessarily need support from the World Laws. None of the Elf Perks do, so aren't contradictory. The Death Claw Edeinos Perk does (though none of the other Edeinos Perks do), and so it'd be a passive contradiction like Radiant.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

User avatar
Rabbitball
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:41 pm

Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby Rabbitball » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:56 pm

[quote="TorgHacker"]

Just to clarify, Favored isn't a Perk, it's a rule that replaces a lot of the +2 to [SKILL]. For instance, Super Skill has an Enhancement that makes the Skill Favored.

I'm double checking with Darrell, but I'm thinking yes, if you no longer qualify for the Perk you lose it, but can replace it with another.

[quote]

If Darrell doesn't get back to you right away, I apologize. He may be busy with the pages of errata I threw his way. :shock:

Re: Favored though. it seems obvious that you can't take the Favored reroll after spending Possibilities (otherwise there could be shenanigans with starting from an 11, adding a Possibility for 28 more, then deciding to go for the Glory train with a Hero and a Drama and coming up just short and now wanting to try to bump that 11 up with Favored). But if that initial 11 came from a 10 followed by a 1, can we invoke Favored to replace the 11 or does the decision have to be made at the initial roll of 10?
Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Co-author, Aysle Sourcebook for Torg Eternity
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"Those who will not follow are doomed to lead"—Anarchist, Magic: the Gathering

User avatar
Gargoyle
Posts: 1787
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:20 pm

Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby Gargoyle » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:14 pm

TorgHacker wrote:
Gargoyle wrote:How are contradictions with the Radiant perk handled? Would it be considered passive and only trigger a disconnection with a disadvantage on the conflict line (upon flipping the first card when going into rounds), or would you make a contradiction check immediately when entering combat before flipping the first card, with a mishap (and disconnection) on a 1? The timing of when Radiant is used just makes it a little uncertain for me on how to treat it.

Also for Racial perks, unlike Light and Darkness, it doesn't say, so I'm assuming the answer is no to keep things simple, but are racial perks considered contradictions in other cosms? If so, I'm guessing whether you handle disconnection depends on if they use a die roll (mishap) or not (passive, card line).


Whether or not a Perk causes a contradiction is based on whether it is supported by the cosm's World Laws (represented by having a star bullet point on the Prereq as opposed to a dot), not that it's restricted to people from that cosm. This applies especially to the racial Perks.

So Radiant is supported by the Law of Light and Darkness, but because there's no roll when it's used, it's a passive contradiction. Passive contradictions are only tested for when a Surge comes up on the conflict line (though it can be any round's card, not just the first). In that case, the person makes a single contradiction test, which is a Four Case if the character has any Four Case contradictions. In this circumstance it would just be a One Case.

Racial Perks don't necessarily need support from the World Laws. None of the Elf Perks do, so aren't contradictory. The Death Claw Edeinos Perk does (though none of the other Edeinos Perks do), and so it'd be a passive contradiction like Radiant.


That clears it up for me. I like the consistency of it, and the explanation about the star in the perk description helps distinguish which ones are contradictions and I see the logic now of where you're going with it, with the spiritual ritual of the Death Claw and the supernatural nature of Lightness and Darkness perks make them contradictions, while the Elf perks are more biological or an effect of aptitude and intrinsic to that race rather than something extra. Are passive contradictions being tested when a Surge comes up the only effect of a Surge on the conflict line?

One more question on Radiant: Isn't it always going to be useful when facing a supernaturally evil foe? My thinking is that since it activates at the beginning of combat, unless you're already disconnected you're going to get the benefit from Radiant before you have a chance to disconnect from it. I don't have a problem with that, it's still a risk having it because it can disconnect you later, just curious if that first card flip when going into round play can disconnect you if it's a Surge before you get the benefits of Radiant? Very much a corner case and not really important.
"That old chestnut?"

Gargoyle

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4871
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:48 pm

Rabbitball wrote:
If Darrell doesn't get back to you right away, I apologize. He may be busy with the pages of errata I threw his way. :shock:

Re: Favored though. it seems obvious that you can't take the Favored reroll after spending Possibilities (otherwise there could be shenanigans with starting from an 11, adding a Possibility for 28 more, then deciding to go for the Glory train with a Hero and a Drama and coming up just short and now wanting to try to bump that 11 up with Favored). But if that initial 11 came from a 10 followed by a 1, can we invoke Favored to replace the 11 or does the decision have to be made at the initial roll of 10?


Heh.

Anyway, the choice has to be made at the first roll. So that 10.

Edit: Also, Favored actually only allows you to re-roll...it doesn't allow you to choose the highest of the two.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4871
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby TorgHacker » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:51 pm

Gargoyle wrote:
One more question on Radiant: Isn't it always going to be useful when facing a supernaturally evil foe? My thinking is that since it activates at the beginning of combat, unless you're already disconnected you're going to get the benefit from Radiant before you have a chance to disconnect from it. I don't have a problem with that, it's still a risk having it because it can disconnect you later, just curious if that first card flip when going into round play can disconnect you if it's a Surge before you get the benefits of Radiant? Very much a corner case and not really important.


You take the contradiction check at the start of your turn, so you would still get the benefits of Radiant.

And yes, the contradiction check is the only effect of Surge.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America

User avatar
Kuildeous
Posts: 1486
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:41 pm

Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby Kuildeous » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:29 am

How does Favored interact with mutli-action?

Say for example, you're playing an antihero, and you decide you're going to bash the edeinos in the head with your hammer and then threaten him to back down before you get really angry. So that's a melee weapons roll and an intimidation. Intimidation is favored, but melee weapons is not.

I'm seeing three possibilities:
* Favored only works if it's the only action, so you don't get Favored on intimidation.
* You keep track of your first roll and then can choose to apply the second roll to intimidation.
* You use either bonus number for all actions.

The last one sounds really unlikely. The other two seem to be probably outcomes, though the second bullet could get a little confusing.
The Boneyard – Friends and foes within Tharkold's Blasted Land

Infiniverse Exchange Word template – Infiniverse Exchange template for MS Word users

User avatar
TorgHacker
Posts: 4871
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:41 am

Just got this clarified. You only get to use the Favored ability if it's the only skill you're using, no no Multi-Actions.
Deanna Gilbert
Torg Eternity designer
Ulisses North America


Return to “Rules Questions (TORG)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 19 guests