Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

carldot34
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Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby carldot34 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:01 am

If the second roll using Favored is a 1, is it a Mishap?

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TorgHacker
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Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:27 am

No. Mishaps are only checked on the very first roll.
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Kuildeous
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Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby Kuildeous » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:37 am

TorgHacker wrote:No. Mishaps are only checked on the very first roll.


This would be an exception to:
TorgHacker wrote:You have to take the 2nd roll no matter what, you don't get to choose the highest of the two.


Which is fine for me, but I think many players may find this frustrating to keep track of.

Still a lot less to keep track of than oTorg.
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carldot34
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Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby carldot34 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:35 am

I know at least one player (and maybe as many as three!) that I am going to have to watch like a hawk to make sure they don't snatch up Mishaps and reroll them because they are Favored! Lol.
I might have to insist that their first die stays on the table and they roll a second die for the Favored. Or roll two die of different colours, with one colour identified as the primary!

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Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:48 pm

Kuildeous wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:No. Mishaps are only checked on the very first roll.


This would be an exception to:
TorgHacker wrote:You have to take the 2nd roll no matter what, you don't get to choose the highest of the two.


Which is fine for me, but I think many players may find this frustrating to keep track of.

Still a lot less to keep track of than oTorg.


The actual rules make this more clear. The rules on Mishaps state that it's only the first roll that matters.

The Favored rule means that if you roll a 6 and re-roll and get a 1, you have to take the 1. That doesn't mean that it's a Mishap though.
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blackwind1kaze
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Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby blackwind1kaze » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:30 pm

So if I reroll into a 1 say with intimidation. Would that be an auto fail or a heavy negative modifier?
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Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby Kuildeous » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:14 pm

blackwind1kaze wrote:So if I reroll into a 1 say with intimidation. Would that be an auto fail or a heavy negative modifier?


The sample character sheet shows that a 1 is a fail. So you could reroll into something much worse.

For that reason, I don't think that Favored will be that overpowered. It sounds like it, but if you roll not terrible, then you have motivation to not reroll. That lousy 8 you rolled has a 35% chance of being worse. If your first roll is double digits, you'll probably avoid rerolling it 99% of the time. But if you roll a 3, then go for it.

There can still be reason to reroll even if your first roll is decent. Maybe that 13 still fails the skill check. Or maybe it's a standard success, and you really want a Good success. In that case, invoking the reroll would be doubling down on your roll. You might get better, but you risk going worse.
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carldot34
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Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby carldot34 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:24 am

After considering it, have decided I am not a fan of Favored. It is a) another thing to slow game play while a player decides whether they should reroll, b) players will want to use it to avoid Mishaps and then grumble when they can't or c) try to pick up the dice before anyone notices the Mishap and d) my primary reason; it just feels too much like the Advantage rule in 5e of That Other Roleplaying Game. Torg doesn't need it to feel like Torg. I know my players will recognise its parentage the very first time we use it and it will make Torg feel like it is copying instead of leading.
Probably too late for my opinion to matter now though.

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Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby Gargoyle » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:23 am

carldot34 wrote:After considering it, have decided I am not a fan of Favored. It is a) another thing to slow game play while a player decides whether they should reroll, b) players will want to use it to avoid Mishaps and then grumble when they can't or c) try to pick up the dice before anyone notices the Mishap and d) my primary reason; it just feels too much like the Advantage rule in 5e of That Other Roleplaying Game. Torg doesn't need it to feel like Torg. I know my players will recognise its parentage the very first time we use it and it will make Torg feel like it is copying instead of leading.
Probably too late for my opinion to matter now though.


I'm not sure I love Favored either, but I don't hate it.
- I think it could slow the game down, but any option you give the player will do that, and I don't think that's a reason not to give them lots of options, and Favored is fairly limited in how much it can be used, only with certain perks/skills. So I don't think it's a big issue.
- Some players will grumble over this, yes.
- Cheating players are a social issue, not a game rules issue. "Locks keep honest men honest" so I get what you're saying, but I try not to worry about this.

I actually think Favored reminds me more of the old "Take 10" mechanic, where a player who was really good at a skill could just not roll and get a 10. I know it's mechanically different, more like advantage, but the problem that Favored is trying to solve is the same as take 10...how do you make a character able to use a skill more reliably (simulating a professional at that skill) without just giving them higher numbers? It has the same end effect, though Favored is clearly a gamble, whereas Advantage isn't, and neither is take 10. Advantage/Disadvantage is way different in my mind because it applies to almost any roll, and it replaces all those little +2/-2 modifiers from earlier editions, and in a way, Favored is very Torg-like since it's rolling another die. You could even say that Advantage/Disadvantage got that from Torg more than the other way around, as rolling more dice as a bonus is very much a Torg thing (Up condition, possibilities, cards, etc).

I think the reality is that RPG's have been riffing off each other for decades...and note I said "riffing" not ripping...it's not wrong to take something that works in another system and try to use it to improve game play. But as far as how Favored actually works, I dunno, guess I'll see. I suspect it's not going to come up that much TBH.
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carldot34
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Re: Preview #16 - A Closer Look at Perks (Part 2)

Postby carldot34 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:18 pm

Thank you for your reply, gargoyle. You're right, of course, on all counts, and it would not be unreasonable to just to house rule it as a flat +2, +5, as a minimum +1 bonus like active defense, as a 'take ten' or something else. Once we have given the RAW a fair chance of course, as TorgHacker keeps suggesting we do, lol.


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