What's so occult about Occultech?

Scaramouche
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What's so occult about Occultech?

Postby Scaramouche » Mon May 07, 2018 5:52 am

Other than being from Tharkhold and used by Demons, what's the occult component of Occultech that differentiates it from, say, Cyberpapacy cybertech? Heck, the Cyberpapacy even has the Hexxer, which explicitly affects magic - something Occultech lacks.

I understand that there's a bit of flavor. Occultech is tainted by demonic influence and must be cleansed and thrives on pain.
But none of this flavor seems to meaningfully differentiate Occultech from Cyberware.

Has anyone played around with any house rules to give one or the other more identity?

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Here Comes The Flood
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Re: What's so occult about Occultech?

Postby Here Comes The Flood » Mon May 07, 2018 6:04 am

I would imagine that differentiation will be coming in the splatbooks for the cosm.

As of now, there really isn't a lot to it. Back in the original game, Tharkold seemed to be a pointless cosm, one with high axioms but no real theme or uniqueness. It was like Cyberpapal tech mixed with Orrorsh horror. Now it's lost the Spirit axiom but (bizarrely) has the highest Social axiom (why??) and the best psionics.

Then and now it feels like a weird mishmash, overpowered but under-themed. They seem to be trying to push it as the 'post-apocalypse' setting, but it doesn't really feel like that to me. All the high axioms feel at odds with one another (high tech, magic AND psionics, barbaric regressive culture but with utopian Social axiom??).

I expect they will at least try to address this in the Tharkold book, but for me, it's the one cosm I could drop without really losing anything unique to the setting.
“When the night shows, the signals grow on radios
All the strange things, they come and go, as early warnings…”

sandchigger
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Re: What's so occult about Occultech?

Postby sandchigger » Mon May 07, 2018 6:50 am

Here Comes The Flood wrote:I would Now it's lost the Spirit axiom but (bizarrely) has the highest Social axiom (why??) and the best psionics.


Answered your own question there

fougerec
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Re: What's so occult about Occultech?

Postby fougerec » Mon May 07, 2018 6:53 am

Social 25 doesn't mean utopia, it means that rights of individuals and groups are standardized, there are non-destructive means of conflict resolution, that supranational agencies are practical.

All of these things I see in Tharkold. Rights are standardized - demons get them, thralls do not. It's shitty but it is standardized. If you challenge and beat the pride alpha you take over the pride is non-destructive means of conflict resolution and the prides are definitely supranational.

High Social doesn't mean good Social.

Mike McCall
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Re: What's so occult about Occultech?

Postby Mike McCall » Mon May 07, 2018 7:28 am

I hadn't thought about it like that, but just the idea that "well, Mr. President, you are at the top of the structure that killed a Duke, so I guess that makes you Duke" is a very high Social axiom decision.

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TorgHacker
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Re: What's so occult about Occultech?

Postby TorgHacker » Mon May 07, 2018 8:32 am

Scaramouche wrote:Other than being from Tharkhold and used by Demons, what's the occult component of Occultech that differentiates it from, say, Cyberpapacy cybertech? Heck, the Cyberpapacy even has the Hexxer, which explicitly affects magic - something Occultech lacks.

I understand that there's a bit of flavor. Occultech is tainted by demonic influence and must be cleansed and thrives on pain.
But none of this flavor seems to meaningfully differentiate Occultech from Cyberware.

Has anyone played around with any house rules to give one or the other more identity?


By necessity the Corebook was wide in scope but shallow in depth. More detail about that will be coming in the cosm book.
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TorgHacker
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Re: What's so occult about Occultech?

Postby TorgHacker » Mon May 07, 2018 8:38 am

Here Comes The Flood wrote:I would imagine that differentiation will be coming in the splatbooks for the cosm.

As of now, there really isn't a lot to it. Back in the original game, Tharkold seemed to be a pointless cosm, one with high axioms but no real theme or uniqueness. It was like Cyberpapal tech mixed with Orrorsh horror. Now it's lost the Spirit axiom but (bizarrely) has the highest Social axiom (why??) and the best psionics.



The Axiom level only determines what is permitted, it does not determine what actually manifests in the cosm. The wheel is possible in the Living Land, but the edeinos don't have wagons. The Cyberpapacy is Social 18, but just for the purposes of allowing corporations. Otherwise almost every other social interaction is 14.

Same with Tharkold. Once we decided that Tharkold's schtick would be 'the' psionic cosm (Pan-Pacifica is almost there, but psionics so far is a minor aspect of that cosm), and once we decided that psionics would be based on Social Axiom, that meant it required a high Social Axiom. However, the Law of Ferocity and Law of Domination keep most of the interactions between beings at a much lower level.
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TorgHacker
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Re: What's so occult about Occultech?

Postby TorgHacker » Mon May 07, 2018 8:42 am

fougerec wrote:Social 25 doesn't mean utopia, it means that rights of individuals and groups are standardized, there are non-destructive means of conflict resolution, that supranational agencies are practical.

All of these things I see in Tharkold. Rights are standardized - demons get them, thralls do not. It's shitty but it is standardized. If you challenge and beat the pride alpha you take over the pride is non-destructive means of conflict resolution and the prides are definitely supranational.

High Social doesn't mean good Social.


While your conclusion is correct, there are definite aspects of the higher Social Axioms that Tharkold doesn't have. Social equality and justice is very much not the norm. :lol:
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Gargoyle
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Re: What's so occult about Occultech?

Postby Gargoyle » Mon May 07, 2018 9:45 am

Yeah, I think you can also look at the axioms as "what is possible" not necessarily what you will find there. World Laws constrict realms sometimes too. When you have laws like Tharkold, the only real aspect of the Social axiom that is readily evident is psionics.
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fougerec
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Re: What's so occult about Occultech?

Postby fougerec » Mon May 07, 2018 10:09 am

TorgHacker wrote:
fougerec wrote:Social 25 doesn't mean utopia, it means that rights of individuals and groups are standardized, there are non-destructive means of conflict resolution, that supranational agencies are practical.

All of these things I see in Tharkold. Rights are standardized - demons get them, thralls do not. It's shitty but it is standardized. If you challenge and beat the pride alpha you take over the pride is non-destructive means of conflict resolution and the prides are definitely supranational.

High Social doesn't mean good Social.


While your conclusion is correct, there are definite aspects of the higher Social Axioms that Tharkold doesn't have. Social equality and justice is very much not the norm. :lol:


I prefer to think of it as those things do exist to some extent but between demons and thralls it's like between humans and pets.


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