TorgHacker wrote:Given the fact that we've given the details on Occultech very little thought other than "demonic and clunky" I suspect we will end up taking a hard look at how magic combines with cybernetics in a vile way, rather than in an elegant way that the cyberwitches have it.
Ooh, that means there's still room for us to corrupt your -- er, I mean, offer our thoughts and they might have some impact! That's always exciting. <grin>
I do like Psionics as Race-only, and on that thought, I kind of like the idea of the Race as being not exactly
just humans. It'd be cool if the Race had a, well, racial template - perhaps even something that would make them slightly better suited to a Psionic character than a regular human, although nothing that would force it. (eg., maybe higher maximums on Mind, Charisma, and/or Spirit, rather than a racial trait that directly benefits psionics.) I don't see it as an "equalizer" between Race and Tharkoldu because, of course, they're clearly not equal - but it helps emphasize that they're not from the same reality.
And then going the other way, I agree with Greymarch2000 - it's actually spelled out pretty clearly that Occultech is a Demon-thing that humans sometimes get hold of. Which means making it Tech/Psionics doesn't make sense. Letting it stay kind of kludgy makes sense to me - Tharkold should offer a very different flavor of augmentations than the CyberPapacy, but it shouldn't really be Where You Go to play a Cybernetic character unless you specifically want that feeling. It is a secondary aspect of the cosm.
And I think, sticking with the "things I like" theme -- rather than just looking at mixing Tech and Magic, which honestly has been done, that opens OcculTech up to be demonic
, which is... interesting. I'm not quite sure it fits with what we've actually been given so far, but I think it's a concept worth exploring.
That reminds me, incidentally - this is one of those places I'm probably in the minority, but on the whole, I would actually rather not
see the Tharkoldu offered as a playable race. They should be solidly enemies, and scary
. If they're playable, that means an individual Tharkoldu is balanced with an individual Storm Knight, and that's not scary.
Greymarch2000 wrote: Sure mechanically it may not be very different but the description and lore behind a cyberarm in Cyberpapacy and Tharkold would be very very different
There I don't agree so much, though. Not that I think you're wrong, but from a game standpoint. Deanna keeps harping on
about how books don't have infinite pages and words have to be printed large enough for the human eye to see and blah blah blah -- I don't really listen, obviously, but I think her general gist is that there's only room for so much in each book and putting one thing in often means taking another thing out. So do we really need both books to have their own writeups on identical cyberarms? I would rather not, honestly. So again, I feel like anything that's going to be offered as OcculTech has to be something we don't already have as Cyberware. Maybe there can be a quick list of Cyber-to-Occul conversions, since the CP book will be out first, but repeat material isn't where I want them spending a lot of our precious layout space.
Greymarch2000 wrote:I could see that but part of me doesn't like the "hey gee we just got a better version of it with no drawbacks". I'm kind of waffling at the ease of acquiring Cyberpapacy cyberwear that is no longer hooked up to the GodNet too. I know it just makes things much easier to play but I think it kind of removes some of the biggest teeth of the individual settings. (Even if it's a good tidy way to explain how they get access to it)
I think it was said quasi-officially that the CP and Tharkold books will have the rules for buying 'ware without the Perk, which will come with the drawbacks of still being hooked to GodNet or of being just awful. The GodNet connection honestly just feels unplayable to me. As the "Piety Points and AR" thread has been coming to, that kind of tracking is so powerful
if applied realistically, I don't see how any Storm Knight could ever do that. Which I think is good, because honestly, Cyberware is the CP's main Perk Tree, so it should be largely limited to Perks, with the easy way being - from the player's perspective - more of a setting detail. Totally in keeping with the idea that the CyberPapacy wants everyone to have Cyber, but that's because once you do... you're theirs
. It's totally available to anyone who wants it, just... not if you're trying to resist Malreaux.
And quite possibly it could come with the note that you can always convert it later by getting your gear hacked -- so if you're starting with a CyberPriest, say, who might not believe in the invasion but does believe in GodNet and isn't yet wholly convinced of Malreaux's corruption, you can do that and you can have your un-hacked Cyberware as gear, until, IC, you start to see the truth and buy the Perk to get rid of that disadvantage. (Given that gear in TorgE is essentially free after creation, I don't see any reason for that to cost any less than buying it that way the first time.) ...Except that as I actually re-read that, it sounds very frustrating playing next to
an un-hacked CyberPriest and knowing that everything you do is being fed back to GodNet. Like one of those places where one player gets an advantage at the expense of the whole party, a thing that has been identified as bad in a number of systems. So that mostly brings me back to, "it's just untenable and shouldn't be a player thing."
Occultech, though, if it's really generally not as good and remains a secondary thing, I could see that working as "gear", that then comes with heavy, but still playable, downsides, like having to power it through your own agony, risking becoming a psychotic NPC if you take too much, etc. Tradeoffs and risks that I could see being fun to take -- or
, if you don't want to, buy the Perk and get the good stuff. I think that works.
Scaramouche wrote:4. Occultech wings, tentacles, caustic tongues, fire-breathing bladders, etc. to replace the demonic weapons of technodemons who no longer have sufficient magic to regenerate these elements.
I really like that one. Thematically appropriate and gives it a separate flavor from Cyberware, since once converted over to a human, it would be granting very different things than Cyberware is ever made to do.
Greymarch2000 wrote:One thing I'd like to see a return of is Spellchips, or even just chipware in general
This is kind of unrelated, but because it came up -- I would love to see Chips again, but I want them in the CyberPapacy. SpiritChips were such
a cool concept, and the CP has the Axioms to support all of it, encoding skills, memories, magic, the soul... having all that writ on a silicon wafer just seems too elegant for Tharkold.