Social Axiom Underrated

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Aenno
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Re: Social Axiom Underrated

Postby Aenno » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:05 am

Savioronedge wrote:Can you supply the title of these books, and do you know if they are available in E-form? Я читаю Русский, плохо. But for that storyline I would опьянение through.

They are. It's Pavel Shumilov, Word about Dragon series. (Павел Шумилов, "Слово о Драконе"). The first line of the first book: "So, again: why I can't exist." ("Итак, еще раз: почему я не могу существовать?")
http://www.e-reading.club/bookbyauthor.php?author=17563
I can't say it's best things written on Russian ever, but it's funny.

Savioronedge wrote:Math is very much a function of the Social Axiom rather than the Tech. Some of our most advanced Math comes with little modification from High Social Low Tech areas like ancient Greece.

In a way I do agree. It's not about calculus, that's really some kind of "recent" development, but still. Rulebook axiom table, though, declare math a part of tech axiom. I don't actually believe it's right, but it's how it's done now.

Savioronedge wrote:So, to your question about the new Living Land resident wanting to start a library because he remembers working in one, he would not, would never think about starting a library or a corporation because that stuff is Crazy, it's just not |Real| to him anymore.

...and yes, that worked exactly brilliant for people who lived in LL without contact. That's what I meant about "every Axiom meddling with your mind". But, again, Torg very premise insists we're not saying about "pure LL". In-game we have exact situation for "when Axioms collide". Let's imagine an ord who worked in library before is coerced to start again, by some reality-rated scientist for example, who wanted exactly to see what will happen.
It's quite possible, of course, it's when Moment of Crisis happens. But what would happen until it doesn't?
That's what, in my sincere opinion, SHOULD be in rulebook. Not just declaring "it doesn't work", but describing what would exactly happen. I took social axiom because, as I said, for Social Axiom such questions are about the majority of axiom table (everything but, like, two dozens of powers with hard-setted axiom values).
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

Savioronedge
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Re: Social Axiom Underrated

Postby Savioronedge » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:37 am

Ok, I think I see where you are coming from now...

Scenario: Billy Smith, descended from plantation owners in South Eastern Georgia and a bonafide white supremacists villain before the invasion, was doing something vile in Cairo when the bridge hit. He transformed in the axiom wash, then had his moment of crisis where he chose Evil. Now he has returned home to find out the town he considers his personal property is in the hands of people he no longer knows and a bunch of Lizards, creatures who finally show him why all "them libral Yankees" kept saying the people he hated were human too. So Billy takes it upon himself to drag his little town, just a bit North of Jacksonville, FL, back into the 20th century. So Billy sets about forcing the locals to go back to doing their jobs, starting with the librarian.

A) If his town is in the Pure Zone, even Billy can't keep the idea of a library in his mind without occasionally disconnecting, every time he tries, the Ords just look at him like he is crazy and back away every time he starts trying to make it happen he has a 5% chance of disconnecting on his Persuasion/Intimidate check followed by (probably) a few 5% chances to Transform, and as he is a Stormer, he doesn't have "2nd Chance" cards to protect him, and for his efforts, he might as well be demanding Shakespearean sonnets from a Doberman...the Ords are completely unable to grasp the concepts he is spouting, even though those concepts use to make sense to them...it would be like someone was singing the parody of "Rubber Ducky" my friend and I put together by throwing Russian words in to fit the rythm, you would understand the words, some of the phrases would make sense on their own, and the whole effect would still be gibberish. (Loose English translation: "Mother Russia, it's you, what in Russian you are reading...")

B) If his town is in the Dominant Zone there, he still runs the risk of disconnecting and Transformation from above, but the Ords he is bullying can at least follow through, all the while wondering what the crazy person is hoping to accomplish, until they disconnect (20% chance). At that time, they cease whatever they were doing for Billy, become very disoriented, and pretty soon they reconnect and wander away, all contradictions forgotten. And still, the statements above about Gibberish apply, just Billy can at least get them to follow basic instructions for 5 to 20 minutes at a time.

C) If the town is lucky enough to be in the Mixed Zone, it's almost the same as with the Dominant Zone, just the Ords can work longer before they disconnect as it's only a 5% chance on everything they do, and Billy doesn't risk disconnecting at all. The Ords still don't really get what he is saying, the words don't work for them in the way that he is using them. But to avoid getting shot by his electro-ray, they will fake it as long as they can.

I think I have touched on another key factor in the Social Axiom after Transformation. The Ords above would remember the word "Library", might even remember that it's a place with books, but the emotional connection to the word would be gone. They wouldn't care about why a library is important. They wouldn't care about police or mayors or supermarkets, so even though they remember the words, the concepts behind them would be empty.

Am I narrowing in on your question?

(Thanks for the book titles. I will try to find them.

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Aenno
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Re: Social Axiom Underrated

Postby Aenno » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:51 am

You do. And you highlighted one of problems.

I don't think people would transform trying to persuade somebody in something. Demanding sonets from Doberman, maybe, stupid; but why it's contradiction? I can perfectly demand somebody to install Communism just today, or invent antigrav. Why not. In idea, he should roll disconnection every time he THINKS about library...
oh wait. That would mean that people can't even think about hyperdrives, nanotech or fireballs. Human from Nile wouldn't be able to pull a trigger from a gun from Core Earth. Not even "don't want to", but literally can't, because Ords can't create contradictions, not trying to avoid it.

So in a way it's a question "what exactly is a tool Social Axiom regulate". When we saying people on Aysle can't catch library, what exactly can't they catch? On what place explanation of the library became gibberish?

P.S. Also I don't agree with idea that contradictory concept can't be emotionally charged. Why? In my option, I can believe Communism is really, really important, to have strongest emotional connection to conception and STILL wouldn't be able to install it. Or Core Earth hadn't Marx and marxism, no Russian Revolition, no Cold War?
I'd say, if person believed library is important (let's say he was a devout librarian), he would still believe libraries are important, but would have a trouble to explain why or even what it is exactly. "It's like a vision... from other life... it's kind of sacred place, where relics belongs, yes. We should collect relics and carry them into this place, library, yes, yes!"
Because actually I don't think it's about emotional connection. I'm not emotionally connected to a gun (even if I know dozens of persons who are), it's just a tool. Good to have it, ok not to.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.


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