Wrapping my head around the cosms

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mistervimes
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Re: Wrapping my head around the cosms

Postby mistervimes » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:19 am

Aenno wrote:Also, Frankenstein's monster is quite Victorian, I believe. And it fits Orrorsh, doesn't he?


No reason why he shouldn't, but, as previously noted, the Victorian elements are a skin. The themes are violence, fear, and corruption. It's slasher horror. It doesn't have to be slasher horror at your table, but that's always been the core of Orrorsh.

Aenno wrote:Also, I'm not sure that Lovecraft's cults are about big intrigue. Name "Esoterical Order of Dagon" was placed on plank for it's headquarters, I'm sure in PP they would die from laughter.


Let's unpack this. So far people have mentioned locations (R'lyeh and Innsmouth). While locations were key to Lovecraft's work (he virtually maps some locales), they are not the theme. Leng, the Dreamlands, the Mountains of Madness, and others are also part of the setting. Cities move without explanation. New England was a common setting because it was familiar to Lovecraft. If he'd lived in Texas, it would have been "Shadows over Port Arthur." "Cool Air" and "Rats in the Walls" could take place in any urban environment. People have mentioned the period of the writing, but it bears no resemblance to the Nile Empire laws or axioms. While Lovecraft was a pulp writer, so was Conan (Asyle) and Tarzan (Living Land). The themes of Lovecraftain horror are distopian and existential. To me (your mileage may vary), the best example available is combining Orrorsh and PP (which conveniently happens sometime before day 365).
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Aenno
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Re: Wrapping my head around the cosms

Postby Aenno » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:01 am

That's it, I'm going through Laws.
In Lovecraft Mythos delving deep into Mythos would definitly corrupt and kill you. The Law of Eternal Corruption - check.
Fear and terror is a very big part of Lovecraftian narrative. I believe more people died from terror in his books then by any other death. I'd say the Law of Fear is definitly here.
Still, it's hard (harder then ever) to retain physical and mental exictence, but still possible, even as Things Behind the Threshold are not agree, and sometimes you can ever win. The Law of Preservance.
So Orrorsh definitly here.

PanPacifica?
The Law of Tenacity... no. Just no. Lovecraft heroes are not tenacious bastards, they're neurotics whose minds shatter again pure reality. If they preserve, it's not because they're hard-boiled, but because... well. Because it happened. But still, they would be scarred and quite possible insane.
The Law of Vengeance? Can't recall any Lovecraft work with vengeance as a theme. I do believe they exist, but I can't name any.
The Law of Intrigue? Again, even if cults exists, they're not secret cults who intrigue their way to their goals. They just exist, openly - everybody around knows about Innsmouth, and Ctulhu cults even vere a subject of antropological research. They're dangerous, and scary, but it's not "every man you know can be a hidden cultist"; quite the opposite, cultists usually were quite recognizable.

mistervimes wrote: The themes are violence, fear, and corruption.

Creature killed enough to justify, I believe.

So I can see why Lovecraft is Orrorsh, I just can't realize why it's PanPacifica.
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mistervimes
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Re: Wrapping my head around the cosms

Postby mistervimes » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:42 am

Aenno wrote:So I can see why Lovecraft is Orrorsh, I just can't realize why it's PanPacifica.


Fair enough. It makes sense to me, but I think that it's that we're looking at it in different ways. Are you familiar with the video game (and movie) "Silent Hill"? That's what PP and Orrorsh mixed seems like to me. There is no one set of world laws that is Lovecraftian. You can certainly do what ever you want at your table. Make whatever feels right to you fit what you want (start with the result and work backward). But PP/Orrorsh seems most logical to me.
"He was an unshaven collection of bad habits marinated in alcohol, morose, cynical and ridiculously soft-hearted. One of Nature's policemen; his soul burns to arrest the Creator for getting it wrong."" - (Terry Pratchett)

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Re: Wrapping my head around the cosms

Postby Savioronedge » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:00 am

Geographically speaking, R'ley is Core Earth, for now. The closest would be either Orrorsh or Living Land.

Feel/setting, Orrorsh completely...weird Occult practices with unreproducible results, people going literally insane from terror of things they cannot comprehend or explain, monsters no one knows how to kill... Totally Orrorsh.

For some of the outlying books, you could throw Tharkold in: High Tech mixed with Magic and/or Psionics, alien creatures that see humans as more or less cattle... yeah I can see Tharkold a bit.

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Matthew Surridge
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Re: Wrapping my head around the cosms

Postby Matthew Surridge » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:36 pm

For me, this gets at the question of what's central to Lovecraft's work. I think the Dreamlands (where he was influenced by Lord Dunsany in particular) is basically Aysle. But it's also not necessarily what generally gets meant when people say "Lovecraftian." I'd argue that what distinguished Lovecraft's work from Victorian horror like Stoker or James was its confrontation with modernism in art and science. Basically, his work was about characters confronting a godless universe dominated by vastly powerful creatures to whom human beings were utter irrelevancies. What this means is that you've got Orrorsh as a base, but you need to cross it with a low-Spirit realm. If we're sticking with the realms as they currently are, the three realms with a lower-than-Orrorsh Spirit are Tharkold, Pan-Pacifica, and Core Earth.

As Aenno notes, there are problems with the World Laws of Pan-Pacifica. Core Earth's World Laws — Hope, Glory, Underdog — take it completely out of the running. So Tharkold. Which kinda works. Domination maybe vaguely fits the reaction Lovecraft's characters have to the inhuman monstrosities they come across. Ferocity on the face of it doesn't fit Lovecraft much, except the idea of kindness as a window of vulnerability sort of makes sense. Pain, well, not really, but again it's not outright wrong. And Tharkold does have a body-horror vibe that fits with some of Lovecraft's stories ("Shadow Over Innsmouth," for example). It also has, I think, a sense of general wrongness — of a cosmos that isn't set up for the convenience or understanding of human beings. So, if pressed, I'd call Lovecraft's fiction a mix of Orrorsh and Tharkold, with an emphasis on the former.

Also, I have a nitpick: somebody upthread said Frankenstein was Victorian, which technically it wasn't. It was written in 1818, then revised and republished in 1831. Victoria came to the throne in 1837. This is a distinction without much difference.
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Necanthrope
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Re: Wrapping my head around the cosms

Postby Necanthrope » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:48 am

I still don not understand if this is Orrorsh, Nile Empire or Core Earth....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QduTLFILORY

But this is my next character !!!


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