What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

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Yoric
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What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

Postby Yoric » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:34 am

Since I read the Core Rules, I've been curious about Cyberpapacy augments and weapons, and more specifically about their names.

Consider the following list:
  • Belleview 20-20 Cyber Eye
  • Belleview Low-Light MK II
  • CyberHam
  • CSI EyeKill MK IV
  • HardPlas Arm
  • CSI EyeKill MK IV
  • Hexxer MK I
  • Trigon Integrated Weapon Mount
  • GWI GodMeeter
  • MAS Storm Shotgun

Several things strike me:
  1. Many of these products seem to have company names (I assume that "MAS" is the Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Étienne, the former maker of the Famas?). Does this mean that the Cyberchurch doesn't have direct control over weapon manufacture? With its low Social axiom, a business-friendly Cyberchurch sounds... off, maybe? Just as importantly, all discoveries are due to Ebenescrux, rather than research, so I assume that the Cyberchurch would control weapons and augments more closely.
  2. Many of these products have version numbers. This also strikes me as odd, in the absence of research. Does this mean that technology keeps improving in the Cyberpapacy through regular means even if science doesn't?
  3. All the names (including company names with the possible exception of MAS) are in English. The only justification I see for this would be that they are branded and manufactured for export? This sounds... possible, I guess?

Any thoughts?

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Re: What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

Postby ZorValachan » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:17 am

Yoric wrote:Since I read the Core Rules, I've been curious about Cyberpapacy augments and weapons, and more specifically about their names.

Consider the following list:
  • Belleview 20-20 Cyber Eye
  • Belleview Low-Light MK II
  • CyberHam
  • CSI EyeKill MK IV
  • HardPlas Arm
  • CSI EyeKill MK IV
  • Hexxer MK I
  • Trigon Integrated Weapon Mount
  • GWI GodMeeter
  • MAS Storm Shotgun

Several things strike me:
  1. Many of these products seem to have company names (I assume that "MAS" is the Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Étienne, the former maker of the Famas?). Does this mean that the Cyberchurch doesn't have direct control over weapon manufacture? With its low Social axiom, a business-friendly Cyberchurch sounds... off, maybe? Just as importantly, all discoveries are due to Ebenescrux, rather than research, so I assume that the Cyberchurch would control weapons and augments more closely.
  2. Many of these products have version numbers. This also strikes me as odd, in the absence of research. Does this mean that technology keeps improving in the Cyberpapacy through regular means even if science doesn't?
  3. All the names (including company names with the possible exception of MAS) are in English. The only justification I see for this would be that they are branded and manufactured for export? This sounds... possible, I guess?

Any thoughts?


These were the names in Old Torg. GWI stands for God Works Industries (or something similar). I can't remember the others.
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Re: What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

Postby Gargoyle » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:21 am

The meaning behind the names is changing a bit, it's not the same as oTorg. I can't really say much about it other that (NDA), but you'll find out soon enough.
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Re: What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:28 am

Yoric wrote:Since I read the Core Rules, I've been curious about Cyberpapacy augments and weapons, and more specifically about their names.

Several things strike me:

Many of these products seem to have company names (I assume that "MAS" is the Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Étienne, the former maker of the Famas?). Does this mean that the Cyberchurch doesn't have direct control over weapon manufacture? With its low Social axiom, a business-friendly Cyberchurch sounds... off, maybe? Just as importantly, all discoveries are due to Ebenescrux, rather than research, so I assume that the Cyberchurch would control weapons and augments more closely.



So this is one of those cases where we chose to continue an element from Original Torg into Torg Eternity. In the original game, the Cyberpapacy literally was a cyberpunk setting put on top of a medievalist Inquisitional theocracy. Cyberpunk was pretty new when Torg came out, so it basically took all those tropes and applied it to the realm.

This included corporations.

Now, in Torg Eternity we changed it up and decided that we'd make it so the Cyberpapacy would have seen the tech surge happen hundreds of years ago so it was a mature cybernetic setting. We chose at the time of the Core Book to keep it at Social 18. In hindsight, after considering the impact of the choice we made, I'd have gone and just slapped it back down to Social 14, and not had corporations at all.

But that's not what we did, so the Core Book has corporation names associated with the cyberware, weapons, vehicles, etc. So when we developed the Cyberpapacy for the sourcebook we needed to explain those. And we have...they're guilds associated with monastic orders rather than corporations, and we go into some detail on these (admittedly most of that detail had to be shunted to the Secrets PDFs).

But yes, one of the tacks we took was that with the Church (nominally) able to control everything, and little social progress being made, what would that look like? Corporations seemed out, but I used the fact that socialism was possible at Social 18 and leaned into _that_ especially since it made a good contrast with Pan-Pacifica which is more of a capitalist dystopia.

But yes, the Church very much has a lot of control over manufacturing.


[*] Many of these products have version numbers. This also strikes me as odd, in the absence of research. Does this mean that technology keeps improving in the Cyberpapacy through regular means even if science doesn't?



Again, legacy stuff.

But technology _does_ still improve through "divine inspiration". It just has some of the terminology associated with incremental science and tech development.


[*] All the names (including company names with the possible exception of MAS) are in English. The only justification I see for this would be that they are branded and manufactured for export? This sounds... possible, I guess

Any thoughts?


And again, legacy reasons. This is one of those "just so" facts that doesn't really make sense. We do go into it a bit of how these are known by a 'brand' name, but the names are essentially "nicknames" for the monastic order name.

For instance:

Belle (Order of St. Belladonna): Belle-branded cyberware tends to be specialized in enhancing the visual senses, and is named for a woman who, despite being incredibly beautiful and could have had any man for a husband, chose to become a nun. Her eyes were reputed to be her most admired physical trait.

Compte (Order of St. Lovelace): Named for the first nun named to the Techquisition, this order specializes in the creation of cyberware that provides physical enhancements and prosthetic devices. Many of their prosthetics are better known from the material which they’re made of, HardPlas.


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Re: What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

Postby fougerec » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:40 am

I love the explanation as well as the look at how the social axiom impacts the setting.

Also, my players thought the "techquisition" name was awesome when they were name dropped in our last session.

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Yoric
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Re: What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

Postby Yoric » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:00 am

Thanks for the explanations, that works nicely!

(and yes, I had assumed that the meta- reason was oTorg, but it's nice to see that I'm not the only one who enjoys retrofitting new meaning behind old names :) )

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Re: What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

Postby TorgHacker » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:43 am

Incidentally, this "I wish we hadn't gone Social 18" is why I don't like to lock things down unless we absolutely have to.
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Matthew Surridge
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Re: What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

Postby Matthew Surridge » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:21 am

Yoric wrote:[*] All the names (including company names with the possible exception of MAS) are in English. The only justification I see for this would be that they are branded and manufactured for export? This sounds... possible, I guess?[/list]

Any thoughts?


FWIW, I've been kicking around the idea that a lot of the Cyberpapal names and terms were originally in Latin, with translations into French and English following from that. But I'll see what happens when the sourcebook comes out. Wasn't oTorg translated into French at some point?
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Re: What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

Postby Wakshani » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:32 pm

TorgHacker wrote:Incidentally, this "I wish we hadn't gone Social 18" is why I don't like to lock things down unless we absolutely have to.


Yeah, Social 14 would have been so much smoother.

Then again, it gave a few great story hooks, so, it worked out okay.

Which gives a great "Thing is bad for society and corrupts the youth so IT MUST BE DESTROYED!" vibe, which is seen in reactionary forces all troughout history. I mean, come on, the Bonfire of the Vanities? How can you NOT use that stuff?

"Round up the heretic! Tie them to the post! Pile those wretched THINGS about them! We'll make a funeral pyre of your sins!"

That's *vintage* villainy!

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Re: What's behind the names of Cyberpapacy augments and weapons?

Postby Arcesilaus » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:06 pm

Matthew Surridge wrote:
Yoric wrote:[*] All the names (including company names with the possible exception of MAS) are in English. The only justification I see for this would be that they are branded and manufactured for export? This sounds... possible, I guess?[/list]

Any thoughts?


FWIW, I've been kicking around the idea that a lot of the Cyberpapal names and terms were originally in Latin, with translations into French and English following from that. But I'll see what happens when the sourcebook comes out. Wasn't oTorg translated into French at some point?

FWIW, as a Latin scholar, I'd be happy to help with any work you may end up doing on this project.
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