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Re: House Rules

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:48 pm
by Kanaris
Thanks, that's really helpful. We were OTorg fanatics back in the day and think USNA have done a fantastic job with TorgE, but there's nothing like actual lived experience to iron out kinks in new rules for any system.

Re: House Rules

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:55 pm
by vaminion
ZorValachan wrote:2) Super Attribute and Super Skill are bonuses (and adhere to the Bonus Stacking rules). This prevents the weird XP cost as well as figuring out what to do when the Powers are lost.


If I ever run I'll probably steal this. I really don't like how far Nile characters throw things out of whack.

I'm not as sold on charisma as reality. I like it conceptually, but certain character concepts are already so MAD I don't feel right adding another ability to the mix.

Re: House Rules

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:29 am
by TorgHacker
Kanaris wrote:Thanks, that's really helpful. We were OTorg fanatics back in the day and think USNA have done a fantastic job with TorgE, but there's nothing like actual lived experience to iron out kinks in new rules for any system.


Something I do want to point out.

There are other Perks from other realities that directly increase attributes, like Spirit of Takta Ker which increases Spirit, and Savage Strength which increases Strength. These also directly increase the attribute, and are not bonuses. Admittedly these aren't potentially contradictory but that does mean that if you treat Super-Attribute as a bonus, other bonuses to that attribute don't stack.

Also, note that the Nile Empire has none of these attribute increasing Perks, other than Super-Attribute. That was intentional. This means that Nile Characters don't have any cosm specific Perks that allow stat boosts, only bonuses.

Re: House Rules

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:50 pm
by johntfs
TorgHacker wrote:
Kanaris wrote:Thanks, that's really helpful. We were OTorg fanatics back in the day and think USNA have done a fantastic job with TorgE, but there's nothing like actual lived experience to iron out kinks in new rules for any system.


Something I do want to point out.

There are other Perks from other realities that directly increase attributes, like Spirit of Takta Ker which increases Spirit, and Savage Strength which increases Strength. These also directly increase the attribute, and are not bonuses. Admittedly these aren't potentially contradictory but that does mean that if you treat Super-Attribute as a bonus, other bonuses to that attribute don't stack.

Also, note that the Nile Empire has none of these attribute increasing Perks, other than Super-Attribute. That was intentional. This means that Nile Characters don't have any cosm specific Perks that allow stat boosts, only bonuses.


Since those Attribute increases are Perks, does that mean that they are lost if say, edeinos Optant Seess-Tek transforms into Nile hero Captain Crocodile?

Re: House Rules

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:57 pm
by GeniusCodeMonkey
johntfs wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
Kanaris wrote:Thanks, that's really helpful. We were OTorg fanatics back in the day and think USNA have done a fantastic job with TorgE, but there's nothing like actual lived experience to iron out kinks in new rules for any system.


Something I do want to point out.

There are other Perks from other realities that directly increase attributes, like Spirit of Takta Ker which increases Spirit, and Savage Strength which increases Strength. These also directly increase the attribute, and are not bonuses. Admittedly these aren't potentially contradictory but that does mean that if you treat Super-Attribute as a bonus, other bonuses to that attribute don't stack.

Also, note that the Nile Empire has none of these attribute increasing Perks, other than Super-Attribute. That was intentional. This means that Nile Characters don't have any cosm specific Perks that allow stat boosts, only bonuses.


Since those Attribute increases are Perks, does that mean that they are lost if say, edeinos Optant Seess-Tek transforms into Nile hero Captain Crocodile?


Yes. All cosm specific perks are lost.
I would rule that you get to replace them of course ;D

Re: House Rules

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:54 am
by Savioronedge
GeniusCodeMonkey wrote:
johntfs wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:
Something I do want to point out.

There are other Perks from other realities that directly increase attributes, like Spirit of Takta Ker which increases Spirit, and Savage Strength which increases Strength. These also directly increase the attribute, and are not bonuses. Admittedly these aren't potentially contradictory but that does mean that if you treat Super-Attribute as a bonus, other bonuses to that attribute don't stack.

Also, note that the Nile Empire has none of these attribute increasing Perks, other than Super-Attribute. That was intentional. This means that Nile Characters don't have any cosm specific Perks that allow stat boosts, only bonuses.


Since those Attribute increases are Perks, does that mean that they are lost if say, edeinos Optant Seess-Tek transforms into Nile hero Captain Crocodile?


Yes. All cosm specific perks are lost.
I would rule that you get to replace them of course ;D

This is part of the problem. If I have a Perk that raises my stat to 11, and I spend 24 xp to make it 12 then lose the Perk through Transformation, I am now 2 xp behind the rest of.the party, 4 for an enhanced Super Attribute.

Re: House Rules

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:29 am
by GeniusCodeMonkey
Savioronedge wrote:
GeniusCodeMonkey wrote:
johntfs wrote:
Since those Attribute increases are Perks, does that mean that they are lost if say, edeinos Optant Seess-Tek transforms into Nile hero Captain Crocodile?


Yes. All cosm specific perks are lost.
I would rule that you get to replace them of course ;D

This is part of the problem. If I have a Perk that raises my stat to 11, and I spend 24 xp to make it 12 then lose the Perk through Transformation, I am now 2 xp behind the rest of.the party, 4 for an enhanced Super Attribute.


I think that's why it's a bonus to the stat and not a change of the stat. I think there was another thread for this very question.
I've always run it as a bonus, simply because if the PC disconnects then I feel they shouldn't benefit from it. It does make bookkeeping for the player slightly harder (they have to put a * by every skill for that stat), but my players don't mind this. They are all capable of adding and subtracting numbers :D

Re: House Rules

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:05 pm
by TorgHacker
GeniusCodeMonkey wrote:
Yes. All cosm specific perks are lost.
I would rule that you get to replace them of course ;D


Not necessarily. It's the contradictory ones that need to change.

From the FAQ:

"Q: Can you give some guidance with how to rule what Perks should change when a character transforms?

A: Perks are a bit more likely to change than skills are (since skills are not inherently contradictory). The particular Perks that should change is a GM's call (with player input).

All Perks with prerequisites listed with a star bullet are contradictory outside the particular reality, so almost always should change. Other Perks with a specific cosm listed are also candidates for getting changed, but the GM should consider if that Perk is not completely unusual outside that cosm. Racial Perks like Edeinos, Dwarf, and Elf are more likely to not need changing. "

Re: House Rules

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:49 am
by pkitty
TorgHacker wrote:There are other Perks from other realities that directly increase attributes, like Spirit of Takta Ker which increases Spirit, and Savage Strength which increases Strength. These also directly increase the attribute, and are not bonuses. Admittedly these aren't potentially contradictory but that does mean that if you treat Super-Attribute as a bonus, other bonuses to that attribute don't stack.

It also confuses things a bit, because all of the other perks raise the attribute and if you want to raise it naturally, you pay (2 x new level) XP just like for any other increase. However if you change this to a bonus, now you pay (2 x new level not counting the perk) XP, which is less than what the people in other cosms have to pay. So it's questionable whether that's actually rebalancing the perk.

Re: House Rules

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:02 am
by TorgHacker
pkitty wrote:
TorgHacker wrote:There are other Perks from other realities that directly increase attributes, like Spirit of Takta Ker which increases Spirit, and Savage Strength which increases Strength. These also directly increase the attribute, and are not bonuses. Admittedly these aren't potentially contradictory but that does mean that if you treat Super-Attribute as a bonus, other bonuses to that attribute don't stack.

It also confuses things a bit, because all of the other perks raise the attribute and if you want to raise it naturally, you pay (2 x new level) XP just like for any other increase. However if you change this to a bonus, now you pay (2 x new level not counting the perk) XP, which is less than what the people in other cosms have to pay. So it's questionable whether that's actually rebalancing the perk.


Just for the record, nothing is changing officially. All of these attribute increasing Perks still increase the attribute directly. I'm just mentioning a consequence of treating these Perks as bonuses rather than straight-up increases if you're going to do a house rule.