KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

mystic101
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Re: KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

Postby mystic101 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:51 pm

Zackzenobi wrote:Well I'm sure most people missed my post or don't remember but I post about my new Archtype idea months ago before I knew it was an option: The Ruins Seeker

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1604

It just made sense to me that there would be Edinos that saw the tools, weapons, and artifacts in the Lost Worlds as gifts from Lanala. Since I made it in the Explorer level, this will be my proposal. If the hate it, then I just wasted $420. Fingers crossed.


I like your archetype idea. I think concepts like this are an example of the ones that are served best by the Explorer level . . . neat ideas that might not gel completely under the rules as they currently exist now, but that could come together really well with the inclusion of just one or two extra specialty perks or powers.

For a perk, I'd suggest something like this: the Rune Seeker doesn't cause contradictions in a Wonder, and items and relics from a Wonder that are taken elsewhere aren't contradictory to the Seeker (although they may well be contradictory to any location the seeker is at).

The first part kind of steps on a Realm Runner's toes a little bit, but I think it's okay because it's so much more limited in scope. Normally I'd reserve such things only for Core Earthers, but if Wonders really are remnants of places preserved by Lanala, then they're definitely a Lanala thing, which makes them a Living Land thing, and specifically makes them this character's thing, for being chosen specifically by Lanala for that job.

The second part just keeps any goodies found in a Wonder from being a personal contradiction. They'd probably still be a one-case contradiction in many places, but that's certainly better than being a four-case contradiction. Doesn't sound too overly powerful of an effect to me. Still, maybe limiting it so that the Seeker chooses just one Wondrous location to be "attuned to" at a time. So they could, say, choose to not cause any contradictions while visiting the Land Below; OR they could choose to use that spiffy gravitic ray-gun they got from the last Wonder they visited, as only a one-case contradiction. But not both options at once.

I'd also suggest a new miracle that acts like the Pathfinder spell, except that it only works on "lost things", instead of having general purpose use. That could mean anything from finding someone's lost keys, to stolen plans for a battleship, to the location of a new Wonder. Instead of limiting it by range, I'd make it have unlimited range, with the success levels indicating how "worthy" or "committed" Lanala judges the Seeker to be, in regards to finding what they're looking for. An exceptional success might mean they get there without much trouble. Less than that, and maybe Lanala makes them "prove" they really want it by x number of complications or random encounters or something along the way. And I'd make them recast the effect anytime they wanted to visit a previously-found Wonder again, instead of permanently knowing where it was. That was then, this is now. Those things move around, and Lanala lives in the moment. How much do you want to find it now, optant? :)

Just my thoughts, anyway. Good luck with your crafting, and thanks for showing such strong support for a game we all love!

mystic101
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Re: KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

Postby mystic101 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:03 pm

Count Thalim wrote:Orrosh in the Wild West. @_@ If it had landed in the US I can really see it, the Axioms are pretty much a perfect fit, the only thing missing is a dash of Nile Empire super science.


Here Comes The Flood wrote:Personally I never liked shoehorning one cosm idea into another. Deadlands and Brimstone are pretty much about shooting Cthulhu in the face. I can't see the Law of Horror being so crippling here. Wild West stories are about having a fighting chance, not being booked for a loss. Even bold sacrifices lead to eventual victories, a la the Alamo and San Jacinto. YMMV.

I guess I'd just like to see classic Americana in Torg. Shamans and supernatural Drifters and the like.


This is why, in a different thread speculating about future invasion sights and High Lords coming into conflict with each other as they expand, I suggested a mixed Orrorshan/Nile Empire zone in the American Southwest. The Orrorshan laws make it horrifying, but the Nile laws give the rough-and-tumble good guys a fighting chance in the face of the horror. The only sticking point is the Nile's tech axiom, which would muck things up a bit. If there were some way to artificially suppress that, it'd be good to go.

Alternately, a mixed Orrorshan/Nile zone in the Caribbean would have a nice "Pirates of the Caribbean" vibe. The Nile's tech axiom is an issue there as well. Maybe someone could think of a good rationale, working backwards from a "this is cool and we want to make it happen" position.

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Here Comes The Flood
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Re: KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

Postby Here Comes The Flood » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:25 am

If I recall, I think the Savage Worlds version of Torg had both a Wild West cosm and a Pirates of the Caribbean cosm?
“When the night shows, the signals grow on radios
All the strange things, they come and go, as early warnings…”

Zackzenobi
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Re: KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

Postby Zackzenobi » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:18 am

mystic101 wrote:
Zackzenobi wrote:Well I'm sure most people missed my post or don't remember but I post about my new Archtype idea months ago before I knew it was an option: The Ruins Seeker

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1604

It just made sense to me that there would be Edinos that saw the tools, weapons, and artifacts in the Lost Worlds as gifts from Lanala. Since I made it in the Explorer level, this will be my proposal. If the hate it, then I just wasted $420. Fingers crossed.


I like your archetype idea. I think concepts like this are an example of the ones that are served best by the Explorer level . . . neat ideas that might not gel completely under the rules as they currently exist now, but that could come together really well with the inclusion of just one or two extra specialty perks or powers.

For a perk, I'd suggest something like this: the Rune Seeker doesn't cause contradictions in a Wonder, and items and relics from a Wonder that are taken elsewhere aren't contradictory to the Seeker (although they may well be contradictory to any location the seeker is at).

The first part kind of steps on a Realm Runner's toes a little bit, but I think it's okay because it's so much more limited in scope. Normally I'd reserve such things only for Core Earthers, but if Wonders really are remnants of places preserved by Lanala, then they're definitely a Lanala thing, which makes them a Living Land thing, and specifically makes them this character's thing, for being chosen specifically by Lanala for that job.

The second part just keeps any goodies found in a Wonder from being a personal contradiction. They'd probably still be a one-case contradiction in many places, but that's certainly better than being a four-case contradiction. Doesn't sound too overly powerful of an effect to me. Still, maybe limiting it so that the Seeker chooses just one Wondrous location to be "attuned to" at a time. So they could, say, choose to not cause any contradictions while visiting the Land Below; OR they could choose to use that spiffy gravitic ray-gun they got from the last Wonder they visited, as only a one-case contradiction. But not both options at once.

I'd also suggest a new miracle that acts like the Pathfinder spell, except that it only works on "lost things", instead of having general purpose use. That could mean anything from finding someone's lost keys, to stolen plans for a battleship, to the location of a new Wonder. Instead of limiting it by range, I'd make it have unlimited range, with the success levels indicating how "worthy" or "committed" Lanala judges the Seeker to be, in regards to finding what they're looking for. An exceptional success might mean they get there without much trouble. Less than that, and maybe Lanala makes them "prove" they really want it by x number of complications or random encounters or something along the way. And I'd make them recast the effect anytime they wanted to visit a previously-found Wonder again, instead of permanently knowing where it was. That was then, this is now. Those things move around, and Lanala lives in the moment. How much do you want to find it now, optant? :)

Just my thoughts, anyway. Good luck with your crafting, and thanks for showing such strong support for a game we all love!


Thank you very much. And your welcome.

Your Disconnection Perk idea was my first thought also. Then as I thought about the idea, it seemed more like a Reality perk than a Savage one. Sure they may have a new category of perks for the Living Land, but To put it another way, it felt more like a Reality hopping warrior than a Lost World explorer. I have another idea for Her (thanks to O Torg for being this 18 yr olds first exposure to equality pronouns) that I am working on. But since my new job starts tomorrow, I may be a little preoccupied this week. But I'm sure I have until the end of the KS..

But yes I agree the second idea is some sort of Direction miracle. I'm assuming there will be one in the SB. I seem to remember a Direction Sense miracle from O Torg. I just wish the RAW didn't demand the SK take Ward Enemy as one of the starting 3 miracles. Then the Ruins Seeker ends up with Direction Sense, Ward Enemy, and Healing; because I can't understand a priest skipping the Healing spell. Some people might sat that you can just soak damage but the ability to save your possibilities for possible Glory attack rolls and the ability to heal yourself and others seems too good to pass up. I'm not saying Ward Enemy is a bad miracle, I would just prefer something proactive.

Again I appreciate your feedback.

Staffan
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Re: KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

Postby Staffan » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:54 pm

Zackzenobi wrote:I just wish the RAW didn't demand the SK take Ward Enemy as one of the starting 3 miracles.

I think one reason is that Miracles is the most powerful, or at least the easiest, of the three "power types". It's a single skill as opposed to three or four based on 2-3 different stats. So, making it somewhat harder for a miracle-worker to gain a large repertoire serves to balance it at least a little.

mystic101
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Re: KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

Postby mystic101 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:51 pm

Zackzenobi wrote:I seem to remember a Direction Sense miracle from O Torg. I just wish the RAW didn't demand the SK take Ward Enemy as one of the starting 3 miracles. Then the Ruins Seeker ends up with Direction Sense, Ward Enemy, and Healing; because I can't understand a priest skipping the Healing spell. Some people might sat that you can just soak damage but the ability to save your possibilities for possible Glory attack rolls and the ability to heal yourself and others seems too good to pass up. I'm not saying Ward Enemy is a bad miracle, I would just prefer something proactive.

Again I appreciate your feedback.


If your archetype started with both the Miracles perk and the new Optant perk, then she'd start out knowing Ward Enemy, Shape Plant, two other miracles from the Keta Kalles list in the core book, and another two miracles from the Keta Kalles "Optant" list. That's actually quite a selection. If one of those was your custom "find something" miracle, you'd still have three slots left for other things. Bless and Healing, like you had in the earlier drafts of the character, maybe, then rounding out with something suitably proactive to you. Or even a second custom miracle, if you need to tweak something else to get her just right.

I saw that others were counseling you to improve her Survival skill so as not to get lost, but she doesn't necessarily need that if she's "guided by faith" much of the time, and using her find-something miracle to orient herself. Then you could use those points some other way if you'd like.

sandchigger
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Re: KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

Postby sandchigger » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:51 pm

So the two ideas for an Archetype I would put out were I shelling out the cash at that level are Dino Rider and Tarzan the Ape Man!

The dino rider might already be in the book, but I envision a guy who's (barely) tamed a Utahraptor and uses it as an animal companion/mount/intimidating debuffer.

Tarzan the Ape Man is similar but with a great ape companion (yes, I know they're not native to North America) who he believes raised him in the wilderness.

I like guys with pets...

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Here Comes The Flood
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Re: KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

Postby Here Comes The Flood » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:58 pm

There was a Tarzan style 'jungle lord' archetype in the original Land Below. I'd be surprised if there wasn't more pets allowed in the new Savagery Perks. Having an animal companion in a Lost World setting seems a classic thing to do.
“When the night shows, the signals grow on radios
All the strange things, they come and go, as early warnings…”

Zackzenobi
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Re: KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

Postby Zackzenobi » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:08 pm

Here Comes The Flood wrote:There was a Tarzan style 'jungle lord' archetype in the original Land Below. I'd be surprised if there wasn't more pets allowed in the new Savagery Perks. Having an animal companion in a Lost World setting seems a classic thing to do.


I'm pretty sure the Jungle Lord was in the Nile Empire SB I do think that it fits in both Nile and the Living Land.

Big Lurker
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Re: KS Explorer level - talk about Archetypes?

Postby Big Lurker » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:38 pm

Here Comes The Flood wrote:If I recall, I think the Savage Worlds version of Torg had both a Wild West cosm and a Pirates of the Caribbean cosm?


I think that was mainly so you could freely mooch from Deadlands and 50 Fathoms, respectively.

That being said, I allowed one player to port over his Deadlands character when I ran Savage Torg, and it worked well...


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