Errata/Faq thread

magnus grendel
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Re: Errata/Faq thread

Postby magnus grendel » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:33 pm

Question/Errata point on vehicles:

Should most vehicles not have a default size?
Voidships work on a whole different scale, but vehicles 'share' a combat scale with human-sized targets.
Table 4-1 lists the 'to hit' bonus for different sized targets, and land raiders (for example) are one of the line item entries on it.

Also - should the stormraven's twin assault cannon not be salvo 12? Obviously actually using 12 bonus dice is impossible, but it should certainly be more than 6.

jack_px
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Re: Errata/Faq thread

Postby jack_px » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:01 pm

magnus grendel wrote:Question/Errata point on vehicles:

Should most vehicles not have a default size?
Voidships work on a whole different scale, but vehicles 'share' a combat scale with human-sized targets.
Table 4-1 lists the 'to hit' bonus for different sized targets, and land raiders (for example) are one of the line item entries on it.

Also - should the stormraven's twin assault cannon not be salvo 12? Obviously actually using 12 bonus dice is impossible, but it should certainly be more than 6.


I always saw for the first problem that maybe the size difference is already included in the vehicle defence.
Now about the twin weapon, it confuses me too, but i think that its something like this, if the weapon has a salvo listed of 6, it is 12 because is twin linked system and you must use the maximum bonus that the tier you are playing can give you (8 in the case of a tier 5 campaign)

magnus grendel
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Re: Errata/Faq thread

Postby magnus grendel » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:16 am

jack_px wrote:I always saw for the first problem that maybe the size difference is already included in the vehicle defence.
Now about the twin weapon, it confuses me too, but i think that its something like this, if the weapon has a salvo listed of 6, it is 12 because is twin linked system and you must use the maximum bonus that the tier you are playing can give you (8 in the case of a tier 5 campaign)


The problem is that the defence for a vehicle is a function of its speed - unless I'm missing something a land raider and a bike have the same defence value when stationary.

Equally, most weapons in twin mounts have double salvo already listed (twin heavy bolter salvo 6, twin lascannon salvo 2, etc) - the twin assault cannon is a notable exception.

schnickers
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Re: Errata/Faq thread

Postby schnickers » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:59 am

How does the sister of battle archetype ability work?

If I recall correctly, in addition to the bonus against corruption the sister gets the rank in dice against psychik effects.

I did not checked all spells (powers)but it seems to me, that most (all?) spells roll against a fixed DN without a counter-roll from the target.

When would I benefit from this ability?

quindraco
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Re: Errata/Faq thread

Postby quindraco » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:58 am

magnus grendel wrote:The problem is that the defence for a vehicle is a function of its speed - unless I'm missing something a land raider and a bike have the same defence value when stationary.


The rule you are missing is on page 405, but you're correct about the defense: anyone shooting a land raider gets more bonus dice than when shooting a bike, but the number is 2 dice, which is equivalent to a difference in defense of 1.33 DN, meaning there is no integer amount of defence you could assign as an equivalent.

jack_px
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Re: Errata/Faq thread

Postby jack_px » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:28 pm

schnickers wrote:How does the sister of battle archetype ability work?

If I recall correctly, in addition to the bonus against corruption the sister gets the rank in dice against psychik effects.

I did not checked all spells (powers)but it seems to me, that most (all?) spells roll against a fixed DN without a counter-roll from the target.

When would I benefit from this ability?


Indeed almost all powers have a fixed DN, but there are some which have aditional effects if the target dont pass certains rolls, Compel, inflict pain and spontaneous combustion are some examples.

warhammerfrpgm
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Re: Errata/Faq thread

Postby warhammerfrpgm » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:36 pm

Soviet Conscript wrote:
gribble wrote:will result in pretty much zero effective melee combat, and that to me isn't true to the lore of 40k

And than I'll point out again - under what circumstances and with what parties present. For the humble Imperial Guard infantry troops - they are not actually meant to go into melee combat under normal battlefield condition. And if they found themselves into such - usually something go very wrong and they are about to get slaughtered to a man. That's how it is said as per Codex: Astra Militarum, 8-th edition.
However, that's with the normal battlefield conditions. But than we go into city fighting and find out that "getting close and personal" with the enemy becomes much more likely.
There are also melee-oriented specialists that are delibaretely equipped with armour strong enough to resist regular small-arms fire and with means to actually traverse the battlefield very quickly. One moment these Space marine assault squad/Chaos raptors/Ork storm boyz are couple of hundred meters down range - the next they are descending right onto your trenches with their weapons ready for combat. Not to mention assault terminators just teleporting right to your trenches and starting their gruesome "handiwork"....
PS: And yes - you mentioned Sly Marbo. Well - another possibility for melee combat specialists - using covert tactics and stealth, working behind enemy lines to sabotage their war effort.
They will be cut to ribbons before they *ever* reach melee, unless the opponents are all but immune to the PCs weapons (in which case, you'll have 4-6 rounds of pointless combat, instead of 2-3, before the PCs die).

Per example, an Ork boy per NPCs section of W&G rulebook has a total resilience of 10. A lasgun, laspistol and autogun have 7+1ED damage with AP0. Surely, some ork boyz would be gunned down, but, suprise, ork boyz usually come in great mobs, and often actually are way more numerous than Imperial guardsman opposing them.
A bolter with 10+1ED AP 0 Brutal is more likely to cut greenskins to ribbons, but hey, that gun shoots 20mm mass-reactive armour piercing shells that explode once pierced their targets (that means inside the target). Bolters are meant to cut orks to ribbons - and the "we are outnumbered" are WAY more prominent in such cases.



First of all, Soviet Conscript, thank you for sticking up for my argument while i was away from the forums. so a couple of things for girbble

1. Orks with the 10 resilience(to back up the statements by my new friend here) means that the average lasgun shot in fact does Not take down an Ork Boy on foot.
2. Half of all the detail of this is that at range the guard are supposed to be putting down a blanket of lasgun fire against the orks. they will take down many of them based on volume of fire, not based on the deadliness of each shot.
3. they are doing this, because ork boys should slaughter them in melee. having played enough 8th edition tabletop this rings fairly true. though my commissar Ivanka Shankyu(i like russian bondgirl themed commissars and Anastasia Onatop was already taken), company commander and a bunch of infantry guys did manage to kill 6 eldar howling banshees including the exarch last battle. having a special powersword relic on the commissar and powersword on the company commander helped a ton. by contrast the howling banshees in spite of my son's unusually poor rolling still killed like 9 guardsmen over 2 combat rounds.
4. most ork weapons are assault, last i checked, so orks will be running and firing as soon as they are in range.
5. imperial guard weapon specialists like Flamers and combat shotguns have very short ranges-which wouldn't be doubled because they shouldn't be. then only giving them a couple of shots before orks close in.
6. all of this goes without saying that many combats will be starting out within a 2-4 turns of melee because ambushes, dense terrain, lots of woods, and all those awesome urban areas. yes this means that rifles will almost certainly be always in some form short range in those circumstances. awesome. because otherwise the guardsmen will get eviscerated by more melee centric foes.
7. Many enemies can have great ranges too. I have an encounter with an elite sniper planned for the second session(first if the PC's are extremely efficient). They will need to figure where the shots are coming from and somehow get close enough to hit him before getting shot to ribbons
8. Vehicles. Ork Bikes and buggies will be a staple in my open battles. heck i went and bought speed freaks for this very reason. yes I spent over $200 on models (granted i also spent the money since my son is painting them well enough to enter into the juniors adepticon painting competition-the land jet looks absolutely stunning.) Those vehicles will make short work of any distances because we need to fix vehicle speeds to make those a little more realistic. those ork bikes need to chew up ground fast. and if I get a battle wagon then well my PC's are really in for a world of hurt.
9. You picked Frickin Sly Marbo- the one super sneaky melee bad ass of the entirety of the astra militarum. why not just grab Commissar Yarrick and his Ork Power Claw. i mean, seriously. and keep in mind, he is a stealthy mo fo that generates memes the likes of chuck norris.
10. When you get to higher tiers or factions that aren't imperial guard some of your argument makes sense. but still only to a point. vehicle speeds, if they are fixed, solve 90% of all of this. because the PC's should have transportation. and why not. they are player characters. I don't like making PC's out to be Super heroes, but in the guard the PC's can have access to a decent troop transport.
11. i don't really have an 11 here. I just thought it would be cool to have an 11 point rebuttal.

Lastly I want to say thank you again to Soviet Conscript. You really do have the right idea of stuff.

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CorwynNiTessine
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Re: Errata/Faq thread

Postby CorwynNiTessine » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:14 am

schnickers wrote:Due to the mob rule, shifts and called shots are not necessary (we just hit another trooper with 2 spare icons above the DN).

Quick game rule question. I was under the impression that if you shoot at a mob you kill 1 person in that Mob, regardless of how much damage you do.

If you want to kill more than one person in that mob I was under the impression that you had to target them.

page 209 wrote:"Sometimes, a player may wish to try and affect
an entire mob with an attack, action, or effect.
Apply the rules of Wrath & Glory for targeting an
individual, then add a cumulative +2 DN penalty
for each additional target (see Multi-attack on
page 222 for more details)"


So if I want to try and kill 4 people in a mob I would get +6 DN to my attack roll. Assume a cultist with Defense 3, that means that I'd need to roll 9 icons to target 4 people. If I fail to achieve 9 icons then I miss all 4 in the mob and do zero damage, correct?

Yet here I see that people are just shifting icons after the fact. Is that incorrect, and if not what is the page number for the rule? Thanks.

Ilias Bethomael
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Re: Errata/Faq thread

Postby Ilias Bethomael » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:32 am

CorwynNiTessine wrote:
schnickers wrote:Due to the mob rule, shifts and called shots are not necessary (we just hit another trooper with 2 spare icons above the DN).

Quick game rule question. I was under the impression that if you shoot at a mob you kill 1 person in that Mob, regardless of how much damage you do.

If you want to kill more than one person in that mob I was under the impression that you had to target them.

page 209 wrote:"Sometimes, a player may wish to try and affect
an entire mob with an attack, action, or effect.
Apply the rules of Wrath & Glory for targeting an
individual, then add a cumulative +2 DN penalty
for each additional target (see Multi-attack on
page 222 for more details)"


So if I want to try and kill 4 people in a mob I would get +6 DN to my attack roll. Assume a cultist with Defense 3, that means that I'd need to roll 9 icons to target 4 people. If I fail to achieve 9 icons then I miss all 4 in the mob and do zero damage, correct?

Yet here I see that people are just shifting icons after the fact. Is that incorrect, and if not what is the page number for the rule? Thanks.


Hi, I found this confusing, too, and asked a very similar question a few weeks ago. This sums up what Verispex had to say on this: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2912&start=70#p29486

Basically, you always ignore the box on p 209.

With respect to killing mob members: if you hit the mob, you still have to beat the mob's resilience. As mobs have a single wound, you kill a member of the mob whenever you beat the resilience or the mob accumulates shock equal to the individual shock characteristic.

Take a mob of Guardsmen for example:

Defence 2; Shock 3; Resilience 8

1) standard attack hits with 6 icons and, therefore, results in hitting 3 members of the mob (you beat the defense and then scre one additional hit per 2 additional icons)
2) you make a single damage roll with your weapon; final damage is 10 (beats resilience by 2); the damage result is applied to all members of the mob previously hit by the attacker (so every member would lose 2 wounds, but since mob members only have 1 wound...)
3) three members of the mob get removed

If you had inflicted only shock, you would have needed to at least cause 3 shock for a member of the mob to go down, though... also, in that case, shock allocation works differently from damage allocation (see p 226). I feel like this might cause head aches in certain situations ^^

anyhow, I like the mob rules
Courage and Honour!

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CorwynNiTessine
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Re: Errata/Faq thread

Postby CorwynNiTessine » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:22 pm

Ilias Bethomael wrote:Hi, I found this confusing, too, and asked a very similar question a few weeks ago. This sums up what Verispex had to say on this: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2912&start=70#p29486

Basically, you always ignore the box on p 209.

Thanks for the link!

He appears to contradict himself though?

"Please note that when hitting a Mob, Every 2 icons over the DN is NOT shifting them to hit another target." (His emphasis not mine)

In any case I suppose this explains some of the rulings I've seen.


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