Compel and Gout of Flame

HenriHakl
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Re: Compel and Gout of Flame

Postby HenriHakl » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:50 am

BanaB wrote:Compare "Puppet Master" with Compel and tell me again that Compel is the right spell for a suicide.
Spoileralert: Its not.


That is a really good comparison, and helps put Compel in context.

Future errata should certainly clarify the source text for Compel, as it is rather easy to come to wrong conclusions by just reading it.

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Aenno
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Re: Compel and Gout of Flame

Postby Aenno » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:34 am

Thornius wrote:
Aenno wrote:
RenoGM wrote:I certainly wouldn't classify suicide as a short, simple, or obvious action.

I'd say "shoot yourself", "stab yourself with your sword" or "get out to window" are definitly short, simple and obvious.


Short? Yes. Simple? Yes. Obvious? You are going to have to run that by me again.

What's not obvious in shooting yourself in your head?..
Action is obvious; it's consequences are not.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

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Thornius
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Re: Compel and Gout of Flame

Postby Thornius » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:40 am

Aenno wrote:
Thornius wrote:
Aenno wrote:I'd say "shoot yourself", "stab yourself with your sword" or "get out to window" are definitly short, simple and obvious.


Short? Yes. Simple? Yes. Obvious? You are going to have to run that by me again.

What's not obvious in shooting yourself in your head?..
Action is obvious; it's consequences are not.


It is not an obvious action to take. All the examples are actions a character might conceivably do for any number of reasons. Few people just shoot themselves in the head on the spot without some serious mental turmoil. Indeed, all the examples given could be achieved through regular Interaction skills, given the right circumstances.

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Aenno
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Re: Compel and Gout of Flame

Postby Aenno » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:21 am

Hm. I believe it's language thing. I believed "obvious" means "easily discovered, seen, or understood". It's easy to understand what do person wants from you when demanding "shoot yourself".
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

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mrwonx
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Re: Compel and Gout of Flame

Postby mrwonx » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:57 pm

In the Eisenhorn books - he used "Will of Command" to have a guy stand up from cover in a fire fight. They where all single word commands. "Stand", "Run", "Drop" - etc. I'd argue that's the intent of the power. I'm ruling for my group that one in the basic command category. So basic it's binary. Standing - on/off, Running on/off, Hold Item on/off. Shoot anything other then where the gun is pointing is a complex action. Cause the basic command would be "pull trigger". Now if someone wanted to take two turns - one pointing gun at head, second pulling the trigger - that maybe. Cause remember - everything you can do - the enemy can also potentially do. So you want at least some time for your team to try and wrestle that gun away from your head before you fire . . .

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BanaB
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Re: Compel and Gout of Flame

Postby BanaB » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:09 pm

Aenno wrote:Hm. I believe it's language thing. I believed "obvious" means "easily discovered, seen, or understood". It's easy to understand what do person wants from you when demanding "shoot yourself".


Scratch "obvious" then and replace it with "natural, self-evident, comprehensible".

WhiteKnight416
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Re: Compel and Gout of Flame

Postby WhiteKnight416 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:18 am

Aenno wrote:What's not obvious in shooting yourself in your head?..
Action is obvious; it's consequences are not.


If you dont think the consequences of shooting yourself in the head are obvious, well I hope you dont own any firearms

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Aenno
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Re: Compel and Gout of Flame

Postby Aenno » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:47 pm

WhiteKnight416 wrote:
Aenno wrote:What's not obvious in shooting yourself in your head?..
Action is obvious; it's consequences are not.


If you dont think the consequences of shooting yourself in the head are obvious, well I hope you dont own any firearms

I'm not ready to declare I can describe post-mortem life with any precise.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

ragnarokfl
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Re: Compel and Gout of Flame

Postby ragnarokfl » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:35 pm

Range on Compel is short. Thats a major drawback. I was not even thinking killyourself.

Seems like hit (not kill)yourself. Jump out the window, attack him, fall down, move away, throw your weapon. Those are the real best options.

Given the range, does not seem very OP.

Gout is good. Mainly at low levels. At 3-5 not so much. Can easily be outdamaged by Space marine assault cannon salvo 6 shot, or a corsair fusion gun etc. And those characters have other strengths. I agree too strong T1 and maybe T2 but manageable.

Did you notice Psykers pay a heavy BP tax too. so their stats/skills are much lower.

WhiteKnight416
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Re: Compel and Gout of Flame

Postby WhiteKnight416 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:58 pm

Aenno wrote:
WhiteKnight416 wrote:
Aenno wrote:What's not obvious in shooting yourself in your head?..
Action is obvious; it's consequences are not.


If you dont think the consequences of shooting yourself in the head are obvious, well I hope you dont own any firearms

I'm not ready to declare I can describe post-mortem life with any precise.


That's entirely secondary to the point, a proficient operator of firearms, just about every type of PC, and a lot of NPCs in the 40k universe wouldn't have much trouble having a grasp of the immediate consequences of being shot in the head


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