Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

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BanaB
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Re: Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

Postby BanaB » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:33 pm

Nitoryu Kushirin wrote:
BanaB wrote:The base bonus is also +1 def and outside of mechanics you just become one with your surroundings.

Why give that +1d then, if the sustenance penalty fully eats it?
BanaB wrote:You realise we are talkin about a pen&paper and not a videogame or tabletop, right?

Yes. What's your point, aside from not realising on your own that pen&paper games are tabletop too?


No further questions needed, it seems like you like to ignore answers on your questions.
Have a nice day.
;)

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Nitoryu Kushirin
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Re: Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

Postby Nitoryu Kushirin » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:37 pm

BanaB wrote:
Nitoryu Kushirin wrote:
BanaB wrote:The base bonus is also +1 def and outside of mechanics you just become one with your surroundings.

Why give that +1d then, if the sustenance penalty fully eats it?
BanaB wrote:You realise we are talkin about a pen&paper and not a videogame or tabletop, right?

Yes. What's your point, aside from not realising on your own that pen&paper games are tabletop too?


No further questions needed, it seems like you like to ignore answers on your questions.
Have a nice day.
;)

No further opinions of yours taken into account, it seems like you like fallacies.
Have a nice day too.

BRKNdevil
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Re: Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

Postby BRKNdevil » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:37 pm

Nito has a point here as well, if you don't Shift over probably 2 or 3 dice to increase Stealth Checks, you are not going to want to use this Psychic Power to Hide in most situations. The +1 to Defense is Nice but it may or may not matter depending on the Situation (Like if someone is trying to shoot you vs. Not starting something at all)

Of course, A GM may have a situation where normally you couldn't even take the Stealth check without using said power as well. Such as you are in an Open Plain wearing Bright Gaudy Clothing at High Noon. Normally this would be an impossible Stealth Check, but with Chameleon, now you actually get a Roll.

Sardonis
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Re: Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

Postby Sardonis » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:36 pm

Nitoryu Kushirin wrote:Psychic power sustenance mechanics seem overly punishing.
As of now, sustaining a psychic power adds +2 DN to all tests, yet there are powers (Chameleon, Conceal, Embolden, Enhance) that provide bonuses... that don't even compensate the psyker for that DN raise in the first place (unless you gain a lot of potency increases)! It's like these powers were written for another sustenance mechanic altogether.
Was that penalty at some point supposed to apply to psychic tests only?


I had the same question myself when I read this chapter. Again, it seems like the side systems of the game were just a little too rushed.

What I intend to do is:

1. Reduce the penalty to +1DN per active power;
2. Consider that the bonus for the power is counted after accounting for countering the penalty. For example, in theory, Chameleon gives +1 to Stealth use, which would (according to my already more generous rule) be negated by the penalty. However, in actual fact the bonus is +2; 1 to overcome the penalty, and 1 actual bonus. Therefore, the penalty only applies to other rolls. Our stealthy psyker will receive a +1 bonus for Stealth (which, let me point out, I believe is too little for the power, but that's another topic), and a -1 penalty for, say, backstabbing an Ork.

I'm not saying that this is a perfect fix, but I intend to give it a try.

cps
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Re: Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

Postby cps » Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:40 pm

I'll probably rule that the penalty only applies to things not related to the power being used, so you can use Concealment for multiple turns to gain the stealth benefits, but doing something else like picking a lock or lining up a shot will be harder.

It's not clear RAW, but I would think that the penalty for sustaining a power would only kick in after the initial turn it's activated on. So you could use Concealment and dart across a hallway and not be at any penalty at all.

VicWeave
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Re: Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

Postby VicWeave » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:35 pm

Are there examples of any sustained buff power other than chameleon that only effect the psyker alone? Because it seems like the only real "issue" is chameleon, not the actual rules for sustaining.

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Nitoryu Kushirin
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Re: Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

Postby Nitoryu Kushirin » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:54 pm

VicWeave wrote:Are there examples of any sustained buff power other than chameleon that only effect the psyker alone?

There's also the phantom grip quasi-buff.

VicWeave wrote:Because it seems like the only real "issue" is chameleon, not the actual rules for sustaining.

That said, needing to write any future self-buff powers as giving buffs big enough as to offset sustenance penalties these very powers inflict?

VicWeave
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Re: Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

Postby VicWeave » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:06 pm

If the power only buffs the psyker, then I'd say the buff of the power should at least offset the DN penalty at base effect.

Things like phantom grip (read: mage hand) I think are fine, since it's not a buff, so much as it is allowing new solutions. Chameleon provides nothing you couldn't do without it.

It would be simplest to just buff chameleons base stealth bonus to +2, rather than lower the DN penalty for sustained powers.

jack_px
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Re: Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

Postby jack_px » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:41 am

Chameleon is a minor power with a DN of 4, usually an specialiced player will have 4 willpower and 4 psiquick mastery, so with 8 dices i found relative easy to get at least two exalted icons (and here im considering a tier 1 player for a tier 3 it would be waaay easier). That without considering the use of wrath, or glory point or unbound. I dont really see the problem. Remember too that the DN penalty will add 2 dices to the enemy, since stealth is a vs test. So the party needed the ninja psiker and he only got 1d?, well you can always try again.

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Nitoryu Kushirin
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Re: Psychic power sustaining rules are overly punishing and don't even line up with some powers

Postby Nitoryu Kushirin » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:59 pm

jack_px wrote:Chameleon is a minor power with a DN of 4, usually an specialiced player will have 4 willpower and 4 psiquick mastery, so with 8 dices i found relative easy to get at least two exalted icons (and here im considering a tier 1 player for a tier 3 it would be waaay easier). That without considering the use of wrath, or glory point or unbound.

And that makes chameleon the attack craft of psychic powers.
No other power requires you to get sixes in order for it to function as intended.


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