8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

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CorwynNiTessine
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Re: 8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

Postby CorwynNiTessine » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:00 pm

It wouldn't make sense to have NPC troops that you command be (almost) as good as a Tier 1 character., especially if you yourself are only Tier 2, for game balance reasons.

quindraco
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Re: 8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

Postby quindraco » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:06 pm

CorwynNiTessine wrote:It wouldn't make sense to have NPC troops that you command be (almost) as good as a Tier 1 character., especially if you yourself are only Tier 2, for game balance reasons.


Devotees already does this, although in lower numbers. <Rank+2> Guardsmen with <Rank> in every attribute and <Rank+1> in every pool (not just skill pools, mind - they have Rank+1 when they roll Resolve, for example, somehow) means that at Tier 1, Rank 5, which is expected to be overall weaker than Tier 2, Rank 1, you are commanding 7 Guardsmen with 5 in every attribute and 1 in every skill, which is drastically superior to even commanding 7 Tier 2 characters.

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CorwynNiTessine
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Re: 8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

Postby CorwynNiTessine » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:13 pm

quindraco wrote:Devotees already does this, although in lower numbers. <Rank+2> Guardsmen with <Rank> in every attribute and <Rank+1> in every pool (not just skill pools, mind - they have Rank+1 when they roll Resolve, for example, somehow) means that at Tier 1, Rank 5, which is expected to be overall weaker than Tier 2, Rank 1, you are commanding 7 Guardsmen with 5 in every attribute and 1 in every skill, which is drastically superior to even commanding 7 Tier 2 characters.


I was about to correct you and point out that the troops' stats are based on Tier, not Rank, but then I double-checked. D'oh!

That... seems wrong. Like, really wrong. I just naturally read it as if it was based on Tier, and to be honest I suspect that's the intent. We likely both agree that a Tier 1 character with the Devotee talent should *not* be running around with 7 NPCs that have 5 in every attribute, with individual dice pools of 6 for everything. That's better than the PC in many ways, who are supposed to be the heroes!

There's no reason an enterprising player wouldn't immediately arm the devotees and put them to good use, effectively doubling their PC's strength and generally over-shadowing the other PCs. It doesn't even need to be at rank 5. A Tier 1 character even at just Rank 3 would have a mob of 5 devotees that shoots with 8 dice (base pool of 4 and then +4 for a mob of 5 people) -- which is likely similar to the other PCs who had a max of 4 Agility and 4 Ballistic at creation time (and perhaps 5 in both by Rank 3).

That's why I feel that Devotee being based on Tier instead seems more reasonable. I'll ask for this to be clarified/errata'ed.

In regards to how the NPCs are oddly stat'ed, that's actually by design. Mobs don't follow the character creation rules, and their dice pools and traits don't follow the character's rules. You may have already seen this:

page 404 wrote:Their statistics are not created in the same way as
player characters. Instead, they have values that
are intended to present a specifi c game play
experience, rather than as a character who can
evolve over time. Examples of these differences
include special abilities that are specifi c to threats.
Also, please be aware that derived attributes
need not follow the calculations used for player
characters

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Aenno
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Re: 8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

Postby Aenno » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:35 pm

I believe it's simple enough - tier changing isn't supposed to happen without serious tweaking by GM. There is no mechanical framework for it.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

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CorwynNiTessine
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Re: 8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

Postby CorwynNiTessine » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:37 pm

Aenno wrote:I believe it's simple enough - tier changing isn't supposed to happen without serious tweaking by GM. There is no mechanical framework for it.

Not sure I follow. I don't think anybody suggested that PCs would be changing tiers mid-campaign.

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Aenno
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Re: 8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

Postby Aenno » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:52 pm

CorwynNiTessine wrote:
Aenno wrote:I believe it's simple enough - tier changing isn't supposed to happen without serious tweaking by GM. There is no mechanical framework for it.

Not sure I follow. I don't think anybody suggested that PCs would be changing tiers mid-campaign.

Therefore within same campaign compassion between 2nd Tier-1st Rank and 1st Tier-5th Rank would never made. Still, when 1st Tier character who build around 200 BP (or, as I prefer to count, be a real hero of his playground), I don't feel something particularly bad for characters having 7 people who have "necessary dicepools" of 6 (not every, but necessary; I'm not sure Astra Militarum recrut would nessessary have 6 in Psychic Mastery).
Also Devotees never soak, never deal critical hits, they have 1 wound and 3 shock, and talent never speaks anything about gear.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

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Re: 8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

Postby Verispex » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:18 pm

Aenno wrote:Also Devotees never soak, never deal critical hits, they have 1 wound and 3 shock, and talent never speaks anything about gear.


You got the difference. Thank You. Page reference for everyone to look into this is page 208.

- Donavin
Wrath & Glory Community Manager

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Aenno
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Re: 8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

Postby Aenno » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:28 pm

Verispex wrote:You got the difference. Thank You. Page reference for everyone to look into this is page 208.
- Donavin

...or 404, which is exactly a page Talent description gives reference.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

Verispex
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Re: 8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

Postby Verispex » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:40 pm

Aenno wrote:
Verispex wrote:You got the difference. Thank You. Page reference for everyone to look into this is page 208.
- Donavin

...or 404, which is exactly a page Talent description gives reference.


Page 404 does give you some of the references about adjusting for Mobs/Troops, but doesn't repeat the Mob combat modifications that page 208 lists (like Troops/Mobs only having 1 wound, while the profiles show 3 or more). The info on 208 seems to not be taken into consideration with the above discussions (especially equating them to Tier 1 Characters)

- Donavin
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Aenno
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Re: 8th Edition Astra Militarum Platoon Leader Influence Level

Postby Aenno » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:43 pm

Verispex wrote:but doesn't repeat the Mob combat modifications that page 208 lists (like Troops/Mobs only having 1 wound, while the profiles show 3 or more).

They are, page after, on Scaling Threats.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.


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