Low-Tier Warriors...

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Aenno
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Low-Tier Warriors...

Postby Aenno » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:25 pm

...or "In Defense of Astra Militarum Honor".

The Tier 1 warrior human archetypes are: Imperial Guardsmen and Ganger (because Ganger can be anything).
But there are a lot of sources that declaring Imperial Guard as, sorry for pun, "high-tier" human army; the lowest level is PDF. PDF troops are people who take first attack from any invaders on Imperium planet, and actually is a substrate where Imperial Guards forms. Still, rulebook that suppose to support lowest-level play isn't offering any archetype or Bestiary entry for such a trooper. Actually, I can't find any mention of PDF in rulebook but in Scum bestiary entry (they're there as objects of stealing) and in Imperial Acolyte archetype description (they're previous biography).

So question is: how would you model PDF soldier? My approach is using Imperial Guardsman archetype to generate, without Regimental Affilation bonus and Astra Militarum keyword, and Imperial Guardsman bestiary entry for PDF. But then I have a question where to put actual guardsmen.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

Soviet Conscript

Re: Low-Tier Warriors...

Postby Soviet Conscript » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:08 pm

So question is: how would you model PDF soldier? My approach is using Imperial Guardsman archetype to generate, without Regimental Affilation bonus and Astra Militarum keyword, and Imperial Guardsman bestiary entry for PDF. But then I have a question where to put actual guardsmen.

AFAIK, many planets are actually using one of the distinctive regiments of the Imperial Guard proper as a model for the training regimen and weapons&equipment of their PDF troops. So using Imperial Guardsman archetype seems as a right idea.

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Aenno
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Re: Low-Tier Warriors...

Postby Aenno » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:27 pm

As I said, it leaves me with a question "where to put actual Guardsman".
Just to notice - comparing Tau Empire 8th Edition Codex and Astra Militarum 8th Edition Codex, Cadre Fire Warrior is better equipped, and Infantry Trooper is better trained (because they can use Orders), but basic profiles are the same. Still, Imperial Guardsman is Tier 1, and Fire Warrior is supposed to be Tier 2.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

Soviet Conscript

Re: Low-Tier Warriors...

Postby Soviet Conscript » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:04 pm

Aenno wrote: it leaves me with a question "where to put actual Guardsman"

Well, with Space Marines being Tier 3 and scions from Militarum Tempestus being Tier 2, "regular" Imperial Guardsmen PCs should be Tier 1, as they are.
If you want to use PDF troopers as PCs it would be rather correct to simply use Imperial Guardsman archetype - as noticed before, PDF troops with training and equipment mirroring that of an Imperial Guard do exist in the Imperium. Such troops most likely won't have access to Militarum Tempestus-grade special equipment or combat vehicles like super heavy tanks or Manticore MLRS tanks, but they are quite likely to be able to use lasguns or even plasma guns and ride Chimeras IFVs and Leman Russ battle tanks.
Still, Imperial Guardsman is Tier 1, and Fire Warrior is supposed to be Tier 2.

Fire Warriors do come standartly equipped with carapace armour and a rifle rivalling a bolter in raw stopping power while having greater range.

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Thornius
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Re: Low-Tier Warriors...

Postby Thornius » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:06 pm

Small off-topic question here, but how do we know Firewarriors are Tier 2? Was there a developer statement on that?

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Aenno
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Re: Low-Tier Warriors...

Postby Aenno » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:12 pm

Thornius wrote:Small off-topic question here, but how do we know Firewarriors are Tier 2? Was there a developer statement on that?


Core Book, p. 81 wrote:Tier 2 also includes more specialised and bettertrained player characters, such as Sisters of Battle, Tempestus Scions, Space Marine Scouts, Hereteks, Eldar Rangers, Fire Warriors, and Ork Kommandos. Psykers also become appropriate at Tier 2, as they can now employ their abilities to harness the warp.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

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Aenno
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Re: Low-Tier Warriors...

Postby Aenno » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:22 pm

Soviet Conscript wrote:If you want to use PDF troopers as PCs it would be rather correct to simply use Imperial Guardsman archetype - as noticed before, PDF troops with training and equipment mirroring that of an Imperial Guard do exist in the Imperium.

That's the problem - they don't. Imperial Guard is normally better equipped and trained, even if PDFs are trying to replicate this training and equipment. A lot of sources declaring IG as being elite troops comparing to PDF (and actually is usually formed by the best of local PDF troopers).
Of course, there are really nice PDFs, and of course they're trying to replicate IG forces. But still.
Maybe the better way would be making acting IG troopers Rank (not Tier) 2 or even 3?
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

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Thornius
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Re: Low-Tier Warriors...

Postby Thornius » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:41 pm

There is the option for Tier 0 games for a reason. A PDF trooper could be Tier 0 with ~75 BP. Alternatively, simply have them as regular Tier 1 characters bust force them to spread out their spending more, so their actual military Skills will be comparatively low compared to a Guardsman.

Edit: Thanks for the quote!

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Aenno
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Re: Low-Tier Warriors...

Postby Aenno » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:04 pm

Thornius wrote:There is the option for Tier 0 games for a reason. A PDF trooper could be Tier 0 with ~75 BP. Alternatively, simply have them as regular Tier 1 characters bust force them to spread out their spending more, so their actual military Skills will be comparatively low compared to a Guardsman.

Yes, I thought about that. Essentially, I'm not exactly sure what's better - to make PDF ~75 BP, or IG ~150 BP.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.

BRKNdevil
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Re: Low-Tier Warriors...

Postby BRKNdevil » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:46 pm

Always felt that the Imperial Guardsman is literally fresh off the planet and thus could be considered PDF. Unless your Cadian or literally any Death Planet


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