Assault weapons

Chaos85
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Assault weapons

Postby Chaos85 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:33 pm

Don't know if this has already been asked but what is the point of the assault trait? It says that you can run and attack but with a -2 penalty. Can't you already do this with the multi-action? Using any weapon? Maybe it was meant to be fired without the penalty after running?

Ilias Bethomael
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Re: Assault weapons

Postby Ilias Bethomael » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:17 am

Well, I remember it being answered somewhere in this forum ^^

Basically, it enables you to shoot twice whilst running, iirc
1. Move normally
2. Multi-Action (DN +2)
2a. Run action and use of the "assault" trait (DN +2, so the attack gets resolved at DN +4)
2b. Ranged Attack action (resolved at DN +2 because of the Multi-Action)
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Thornius
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Re: Assault weapons

Postby Thornius » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:27 am

It is somewhat counterintuitive, but Ilias has the right of it.

I would like to point out though that you should also be able to Charge after Assault firing, which perhaps is even more interesting then the double shooting action.

Ilias Bethomael
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Re: Assault weapons

Postby Ilias Bethomael » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:26 am

Thornius wrote:It is somewhat counterintuitive, but Ilias has the right of it.

I would like to point out though that you should also be able to Charge after Assault firing, which perhaps is even more interesting then the double shooting action.


But RAW you cannot combine the Assault trait with a Charge combat option, can you? Of course, one can use a melee attack as part of a multi-action, though.

And I agree, it is counterintuitive like so many things in the book u.u I hope USNA will sort these things out soon.
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Verispex
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Re: Assault weapons

Postby Verispex » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:08 am

Ilias Bethomael wrote:
Thornius wrote:It is somewhat counterintuitive, but Ilias has the right of it.

I would like to point out though that you should also be able to Charge after Assault firing, which perhaps is even more interesting then the double shooting action.


But RAW you cannot combine the Assault trait with a Charge combat option, can you? Of course, one can use a melee attack as part of a multi-action, though.

And I agree, it is counterintuitive like so many things in the book u.u I hope USNA will sort these things out soon.



The Assault weapon allows you to combine a Run action and shoot with the weapon.

You cannot combine it with charge because you cannot use a run action (Which is different than your standard move action)

Page 221 for Charge states that "A character can combine their move and action to charge a target. To charge, a character must make a full move up to their Speed in metres and then perform a melee attack with a +1d attack bonus." Which means it uses up your Actions in Combat (Page 210) of "All characters can take one move and one action during each turn" Since you have used up your one action as part of the charge, there's nothing left to use the multi-action or multi-attack with.

Does this help clarify it?

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Thornius
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Re: Assault weapons

Postby Thornius » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:47 am

Verispex wrote:Page 221 for Charge states that "A character can combine their move and action to charge a target. To charge, a character must make a full move up to their Speed in metres and then perform a melee attack with a +1d attack bonus." Which means it uses up your Actions in Combat (Page 210) of "All characters can take one move and one action during each turn" Since you have used up your one action as part of the charge, there's nothing left to use the multi-action or multi-attack with.

Does this help clarify it?

- Donavin


So to make sure I get this right, you cannot do a Multi-action of Assault Run (Running + Assault trait firing) and Charge (a combination of a melee attack and your Standard Move)?

Especially the bolded part puzzles me. Is not the entire point of a Multi-action to use multiple actions in a turn?

Verispex
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Re: Assault weapons

Postby Verispex » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:01 pm

Thornius wrote:
Verispex wrote:Page 221 for Charge states that "A character can combine their move and action to charge a target. To charge, a character must make a full move up to their Speed in metres and then perform a melee attack with a +1d attack bonus." Which means it uses up your Actions in Combat (Page 210) of "All characters can take one move and one action during each turn" Since you have used up your one action as part of the charge, there's nothing left to use the multi-action or multi-attack with.

Does this help clarify it?

- Donavin


So to make sure I get this right, you cannot do a Multi-action of Assault Run (Running + Assault trait firing) and Charge (a combination of a melee attack and your Standard Move)?

Especially the bolded part puzzles me. Is not the entire point of a Multi-action to use multiple actions in a turn?


What you quoted was specifically addressing the Charge only, and not the Assault weapon trait.

Charge you cannot combine with any "Multi" option because it states it uses up all your actions during a turn.

Using an Assault weapon can be done during the Run action, therefore the Run action can be combined with the Multi-Action, including a Ranged attack afterwards (giving you 2 shots)
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Ilias Bethomael
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Re: Assault weapons

Postby Ilias Bethomael » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:25 pm

Thornius wrote:
Verispex wrote:Page 221 for Charge states that "A character can combine their move and action to charge a target. To charge, a character must make a full move up to their Speed in metres and then perform a melee attack with a +1d attack bonus." Which means it uses up your Actions in Combat (Page 210) of "All characters can take one move and one action during each turn" Since you have used up your one action as part of the charge, there's nothing left to use the multi-action or multi-attack with.

Does this help clarify it?

- Donavin


So to make sure I get this right, you cannot do a Multi-action of Assault Run (Running + Assault trait firing) and Charge (a combination of a melee attack and your Standard Move)?

Especially the bolded part puzzles me. Is not the entire point of a Multi-action to use multiple actions in a turn?


Well, you can only emulate a "Charge" action, but you have to have this seqeunce:

1. Move normally
2. Multi-Action (DN +2)
2a. Run action and use of the "assault" trait (DN +2, so the attack gets resolved at DN +4)
2b. Ranged/Melee Attack action (resolved at DN +2 because of the Multi-Action)

So no bonuses and such that would be granted by the "Charge" combat option. Well, on the other hand, you gained extra distance that you wouldn't get with Charge...
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Thornius
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Re: Assault weapons

Postby Thornius » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:36 pm

Verispex wrote:Charge you cannot combine with any "Multi" option because it states it uses up all your actions during a turn.


Oh? I think that may be what caused my confusion. I could not find a word on Charge using up all your actions. Can you please give a page ref?

cps
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Re: Assault weapons

Postby cps » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:54 pm

Thornius wrote:
Verispex wrote:Charge you cannot combine with any "Multi" option because it states it uses up all your actions during a turn.


Oh? I think that may be what caused my confusion. I could not find a word on Charge using up all your actions. Can you please give a page ref?

Page 210 says on your turn you get 1 move, 1 action, 2 simple actions, and any number of free actions OR a full action. Page 221 defines Charge as a (move+action) action.

This seems to leave open the possibility of using Charge as part of a Multi-Action. You could make the case that you can't melee attack twice (since that'd be taking the same action twice), but you could use ranged attack and then charge. I can't find anything that says Multi-Action uses up your whole turn - where is that? It appears to just be a way to perform more actions.

This goes away if you define Charge as a Full Action, which is how Verispex is answering the question. So is this something that will be in the errata?


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