Black Templars chapter traits

gribble
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Black Templars chapter traits

Postby gribble » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:54 pm

One of my players wants to play a Black Templars marine, so I came up with the following chapter traits:
Righteous Zeal: Black Templars receive +Rank bonus dice when making a melee attack as part of a charge.
Intolerance (Tradition): Black Templars are intolerant of psykers and mutants. They suffer a +2DN penalty for Interaction tests or combined actions involving a mutant or psyker.

The benefit is slightly stronger (bonus dice vs rerolls) but less generally usable (only on charge vs all melee attacks) than the Blood Angels benefit. It also ties thematically into the 40k tabletop rules, where the chapter gains a bonus on charges.
The drawback is based on a fusion of the Dark Angels and Raven Guard chapter drawbacks (so worse when it applies), but will be applicable less often (only to psykers and mutants rather than anyone outside the chapter).
Thoughts?

quindraco
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Re: Black Templars chapter traits

Postby quindraco » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:28 pm

gribble wrote:One of my players wants to play a Black Templars marine, so I came up with the following chapter traits:
Righteous Zeal: Black Templars receive +Rank bonus dice when making a melee attack as part of a charge.
Intolerance (Tradition): Black Templars are intolerant of psykers and mutants. They suffer a +2DN penalty for Interaction tests or combined actions involving a mutant or psyker.

The benefit is slightly stronger (bonus dice vs rerolls) but less generally usable (only on charge vs all melee attacks) than the Blood Angels benefit. It also ties thematically into the 40k tabletop rules, where the chapter gains a bonus on charges.
The drawback is based on a fusion of the Dark Angels and Raven Guard chapter drawbacks (so worse when it applies), but will be applicable less often (only to psykers and mutants rather than anyone outside the chapter).
Thoughts?


1) Bonus dice on the charge to hit in melee is very different from Blood Angels (re-roll up to rank damage dice in melee), partially because it is harder, in general, to acquire damage dice to be re-rolled, than to acquire accuracy dice to be re-rolled. A better comparison would be to another chapter that re-rolls or adds dice to a skill (since we're discussing bonus Weapon Skill dice): Raven Guard re-roll Stealth and have Hide In Plain Sight, Space Wolves add to Awareness (the best skill in any RPG). Dark Angels get full-on Unnatural Ballistic Skill, but only during a Held Action. I conclude your benefit is relatively balanced. However, most of the traits seem based on the current tabletop traits, so I would ask you to consider changing it to: Black Templars add their Rank to Athletics and Pilot tests made to Charge or Ram, respectively, and increase the attack bonus from Charging to Rank. This is a slightly weaker bonus to hit (at R1 you are no more accurate than anyone else on the charge) in exchange for more versatility (you are better at things like including a Jump into a Charge).

2) The penalty needs to apply when the Templar believes the target is a mutant or psyker - e.g. it should be possible to Deceive them into being mistaken, particularly if they lack the tools to check. What exactly is a mutant here - is it anyone the Templar thinks has a mutation? Mental disorder? Corruption? Abhumans? Mutant is not a keyword, but Psyker is, so this segues into my opinion that you need special rules for handling BT Psykers - current fluff suggests that the Templars never actually field Psykers, even by accident, but it's unknown whether this is a gene-seed issue (e.g. it might kill any latent psyker it's put into) or something else (you have room to decide your universe's BTs do something exotic, like have every member regularly checked by the Black Ships and get kicked out if they register as a psyker, or even let the BTs have a relic that can check for them).

gribble
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Re: Black Templars chapter traits

Postby gribble » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:24 pm

Thanks for the feedback.

With regards to the benefit, I didn't notice it was re-rolling damage dice... that puts it in a different light. However when compared to the other chapter benefits (most notably Dark Angels), I think it's still pretty balanced.
I did base the benefit loosely on the chapter trait from the 40k game, though thinking about it a bit more, perhaps it might be better as something like: "When charging, a BT may move up to their Speed +2 in metres before performing a melee attack"? I'm not sure that the bonus die on Athletics or Pilot checks is either terribly useful, or that in keeping with the fluff (which is to get there faster from their Zeal, not more skillfully).

In regard to the drawback, I intentionally left it vague rather than basing it on keywords because of exactly the type of situations you describe. If the BT has cause to believe someone is a mutant or psyker, then he suffers the penalties. Conversely, if he doesn't have cause to believe that (even if they are), the penalties wouldn't apply. Perhaps it could be better worded as "... involving anyone they believe to be a mutant or psyker".

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Aenno
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Re: Black Templars chapter traits

Postby Aenno » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:57 am

quindraco wrote:Mutant is not a keyword, but Psyker is

Just to nickpick - Mutant is a keyword. p. 414 to see Mutant NPC sheet - it has keyword: Human, Heretic, Chaos, Mutant.
Chaos Spawn on p. 422: Chaos, Mutant, Heretic.
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gribble
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Re: Black Templars chapter traits

Postby gribble » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:08 am

I've decided to go with:
Righteous Zeal: Black Templars may move up to their Speed +Rank in metres before performing a melee attack as part of a charge.
Intolerance (Tradition): Black Templars are intolerant of psykers and mutants. They suffer a +2DN penalty for Interaction tests or combined actions involving anyone they believe to be a mutant or psyker.

quindraco
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Re: Black Templars chapter traits

Postby quindraco » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:33 am

Aenno wrote:
quindraco wrote:Mutant is not a keyword, but Psyker is

Just to nickpick - Mutant is a keyword. p. 414 to see Mutant NPC sheet - it has keyword: Human, Heretic, Chaos, Mutant.
Chaos Spawn on p. 422: Chaos, Mutant, Heretic.


Good call, I missed that entirely. But that keyword isn't mandatory for Scavvies, and the Malignancies rules don't have anything I can see for when it's appropriate to assign the Mutant keyword to someone. It's not even safe for us to assume, because the mutant keyword only seems to be present on the "Mutant" and "Chaos Spawn" threats, both of which also have Chaos, suggesting the Mutant keyword may not be intended to be compulsory for Scavvies (so that you can use them to represent specifically weird Abhumans, maybe?).

Verispex wrote:

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Aenno
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Re: Black Templars chapter traits

Postby Aenno » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:45 am

Truth to be said, I believe it's because this two chapters were written without comparissing. For example, every human NPC in Bestiary also has keyword "Human", as they should be; but no human archetype gives one.
I argue fiercely, but I never believed disagreement should be capital offence.

I'm editing my posts often. English isn't my native language, and I'm doing a lot of mistakes; that, with thoughtful rereading, I often found and want to edit.


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