Let's talk about Plasma/Melter/Flamer

schnickers
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:35 am

Let's talk about Plasma/Melter/Flamer

Postby schnickers » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:49 pm

Clone from reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/40krpg/comment ... terflamer/
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I have problems with the design of the Plasma, Melta and Flame weapons. They are far superior (while more expansive) than the Bolter. Considering that the Bolter is (IMO) the default Tier 2 Weapon it makes sense, that those weapons (that I think are roughly Tier 3) are stronger.

From all three weapon types I consider the Plasma Weapons the best. They are a plain upgrade to the Bolter without any drawbacks. Lets assume they are the real Tier 3 default Weapon.

So, why Should any Tier 3 character stay with a Bolter? Despite that he might not able to acquire one due to a low influence. But ascending would give access. Sure, you can get a weapon upgrade instead. But the only one that I see are the special Bolter Ammunition. Every other upgrade is available for the special weapons.

So what do I want to archive with the proposed changes? Make the Bolter a valid option for Tier 3+ Characters. This can be archived by changing the existing special weapons and/or allow the Bolter (and other basic weapons like the humble lasgun) to have exclusive upgrades.

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Change the special weapons

I think special Weapons should outclass in their special purpose and perform comparable (at best) in default situations.

In short, I would describe the purpose of the special weapons in this way:

  • Plasma: High Risk / High Reward against heavily armed targets
  • Melta: Short Range Anti-Tank and Fortification Weapon
  • Flamer: Short Range Anti-Mob Weapon

Here is a proposed rule change to allow those weapons to continue to excel in their field while reducing their power for generic attacks. In short, I nerf them... :) This is a first draft, brainstorming, feel free to join.

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Plasma: The risk of overheating should be there even for non-supercharged shots. Therefore we add the overheat complication to standard shots as well but reduce the damage to 1 mortal and 1d3 shock. We add +1 to each if a reload was spend for the attack.

Melta: Is too effective against non-vehicles. I would add the Unwieldy[2] trait against non-vehicles. Maybe, also change the AP to -2 and add Penetrating (2).

Flamer: Works almost as intended against mobs (maybe too good). And I have a hard time to find a fitting adjustment. I assume the 1d3 mortal damage and pinning per round is the biggest issue (against single targets). Maybe Reduce the base damage to 9?

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I leave it for now. What do you think? Do those weapons need a nerf? Are they fine the way they are?

Sunrunner
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 10:53 am

Re: Let's talk about Plasma/Melter/Flamer

Postby Sunrunner » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:13 pm

Problem is alot of its based on a Mini's game and in the game Bolters are standard issue garbage that you upgrade as many of your troops out of as fast as possible. Both plasma and melta weapons are massively more effective then bolters in mini game. Both of them are actually fairly toned down from the mini game.

Ilias Bethomael
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:30 am

Re: Let's talk about Plasma/Melter/Flamer

Postby Ilias Bethomael » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:47 am

I don't think this is miniature game-realted... it is the natural course of an arms race.

The only reason one does not have the best and biggest gun is because it is too expensive.

Bolters are supposed to be precious and rare - plasma and melta weapons even more so...

But since my heroes are the retinue of an Inquisitor, they of course have access to these kind of weapons. I simply roll with it. They slay elites and even minor adversaries easily, because a plasma pistol is a bi***. They enjoy it, but it can lead to anticlimatic boss-fights (which I never liked anyways).

So instead of artificially "balancing" weapons to quell the natural desire to be at the top of the arms-race, I drive home some points via my role-play.

1) Meltas and Plasma Guns (and even Bolters and sophisticated armor) are the mark of the rich and wealthy. NPCs that are at the lower social tier are likely to feel threatened/intimidated and my herores will find it harder to amicably interact with, e.g., hive dwellers
2) These kind of weapons cause excessive collateral damage (e.g., one of my characters torched the ship's cathedral with his flamer when the team had to fight off a daemon that snuck aboard during warp transit - Yes, they won. But at what cost? With voidfarers being a very superstitious lot the burning down of the ship's cathedral will eventually cause huge ramifications)
3) They represent loot :twisted: and hence, together with (1), attract all kinds of attention - wanted or unwanted.
4) Machine spirits are a thing - a person in the 41st millenium (or 42nd) would be afraid of dishonoring the machine spirit of his well known "comrade" by replacing it with a new weapon

I found that emphasizing this helped to set the atmosphere of 40k as well as encourage some interesting game choices.
Courage and Honour!

schnickers
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:35 am

Re: Let's talk about Plasma/Melter/Flamer

Postby schnickers » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:40 pm

Ilias Bethomael wrote:So instead of artificially "balancing" weapons to quell the natural desire to be at the top of the arms-race, I drive home some points via my role-play.

1) Meltas and Plasma Guns (and even Bolters and sophisticated armor) are the mark of the rich and wealthy. NPCs that are at the lower social tier are likely to feel threatened/intimidated and my herores will find it harder to amicably interact with, e.g., hive dwellers
2) These kind of weapons cause excessive collateral damage (e.g., one of my characters torched the ship's cathedral with his flamer when the team had to fight off a daemon that snuck aboard during warp transit - Yes, they won. But at what cost? With voidfarers being a very superstitious lot the burning down of the ship's cathedral will eventually cause huge ramifications)
3) They represent loot :twisted: and hence, together with (1), attract all kinds of attention - wanted or unwanted.
4) Machine spirits are a thing - a person in the 41st millenium (or 42nd) would be afraid of dishonoring the machine spirit of his well known "comrade" by replacing it with a new weapon

I found that emphasizing this helped to set the atmosphere of 40k as well as encourage some interesting game choices.


This is solid advice. I will look into that. Thanks for the inspiration :)


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