Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

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Spatula
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby Spatula » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:20 pm

Rocketeer wrote:
    A) Rule that the device automatically succeeds in opening the safe, regardless of the DN normally required to open it. In effect, allowing a DN 10 Science test to replace a DN 16 Locking Picking test.
    B) Rule that an additional Lock Picking test is required to open the safe, in which case the successfully created and working weird science device provides absolutely no benefit.

A is not how it works; the text even says as much. "On a success the device functions and can be used to overcome the hero’s problem, though this may require additional skill tests (e.g. lockpicking or air vehicles)."

B is not how it works, either. The examples of using the perk are: "picking an unpickable lock, hang gliding off a cliff, or making an improvised weapon." The lock wasn't pickable without the device. Creating the device (assuming it works, which it may not) makes the lockpicking test possible in the first place.

(or what ZorValachan said)

It appears that you're picturing the use of the perk as a way to get a bonus on a task that the PCs could already accomplish. When the perk, it seems to me, is actually about coming up with out-of-the-box solutions to problems by making the impossible, possible.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:38 pm

ZorValachan wrote:
Rocketeer wrote:Perhaps I’m misinterpreting how the Weird Scientist perk is supposed to work, but there seems to be an issues with a Standard success not providing any bonus to an additionally required skill test. The Weird Scientist Perk states that if an additional skill test is required to use a weird science device, a Good success on the Science test will provide a +2 bonus, and an Outstanding success will provide a +4 bonus. So, on a Standard success, the device either needs to work without any additional skill test, or otherwise it provides no benefit at all to an additional skill test.

For example, a group of Storm Knights plan to sneak into the offices of a lieutenant of the Insidious Wu Han, break into a safe, and swap a fake map for the genuine map. So, the Weird Scientist creates a safe cracking device. The safe in question is a high quality safe, so the GM thinks a DN of 16 is reasonable for the Lock Picking test. When it comes time to actually use the device, the Weird Scientist gets a Standard success on his Science test. This leaves the GM with two options. The GM can either
    A) Rule that the device automatically succeeds in opening the safe, regardless of the DN normally required to open it. In effect, allowing a DN 10 Science test to replace a DN 16 Locking Picking test.
    B) Rule that an additional Lock Picking test is required to open the safe, in which case the successfully created and working weird science device provides absolutely no benefit.

Option A seems to open the door to all kinds of abuse, with devices being created to perform even Heroic or Near Impossible tasks with only a Standard success on a DN 10 test; while option B would effectively nullify a successful use of the Weird Scientist perk. I see both of those as undesirable.

I see it as something different. The group's at a lock that requires a key card. No one has the key card. Lock Picking is not going to work, because there is no key, they have no blank cards to put the information on, etc. The Weird Scientist whips together a device to short the circuit in a way to open the door. Doesn't have to make sense. A standard success is what allows the Lock Picking test in the first place, because without proper tools, it cant be done. We have no glider, plane, parachute to get off the mountain.... Weird science a way to use Air Vehicles to get down with a jacket, ski poles and a miniature fan. Standard gives a means to use a skill that wouldn't be able to be used normally, not just a bonus to a normal skill use


This is correct.
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby TorgHacker » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:39 pm

Spatula wrote:
It appears that you're picturing the use of the perk as a way to get a bonus on a task that the PCs could already accomplish. When the perk, it seems to me, is actually about coming up with out-of-the-box solutions to problems by making the impossible, possible.


Or coming up with an alternative solution that doesn't currently exist.
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Rocketeer
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby Rocketeer » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:44 pm

TorgHacker wrote:
ZorValachan wrote:I see it as something different. The group's at a lock that requires a key card. No one has the key card. Lock Picking is not going to work, because there is no key, they have no blank cards to put the information on, etc. The Weird Scientist whips together a device to short the circuit in a way to open the door. Doesn't have to make sense. A standard success is what allows the Lock Picking test in the first place, because without proper tools, it cant be done. We have no glider, plane, parachute to get off the mountain.... Weird science a way to use Air Vehicles to get down with a jacket, ski poles and a miniature fan. Standard gives a means to use a skill that wouldn't be able to be used normally, not just a bonus to a normal skill use


This is correct.


TorgHacker wrote:
Spatula wrote:
It appears that you're picturing the use of the perk as a way to get a bonus on a task that the PCs could already accomplish. When the perk, it seems to me, is actually about coming up with out-of-the-box solutions to problems by making the impossible, possible.


Or coming up with an alternative solution that doesn't currently exist.


Thank you for the clarifications.

utsukushi
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby utsukushi » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:47 pm

It appears that you're picturing the use of the perk as a way to get a bonus on a task that the PCs could already accomplish.

...now I want a Weird Science talking paperclip.

"It appears you're trying to open this door! Would you like an inventory of all the objects in the room that might help?"

Are you sure we can't base the Weird Science Perk on a Gadget Limitation? With the other Minor Limitation being, Won't allow you to modify your own inventory? ("Are you sure you want to throw that away?" "I'm sorry, you don't have administrator privileges for that pocket.") I guess it might have to come from a Nile/Pan-Pacifica Mixed Zone. Possibly with a Nightmare Tree involved.

Savioronedge
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby Savioronedge » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:07 pm

utsukushi wrote:
It appears that you're picturing the use of the perk as a way to get a bonus on a task that the PCs could already accomplish.

...now I want a Weird Science talking paperclip.

"It appears you're trying to open this door! Would you like an inventory of all the objects in the room that might help?"

Are you sure we can't base the Weird Science Perk on a Gadget Limitation? With the other Minor Limitation being, Won't allow you to modify your own inventory? ("Are you sure you want to throw that away?" "I'm sorry, you don't have administrator privileges for that pocket.") I guess it might have to come from a Nile/Pan-Pacifica Mixed Zone. Possibly with a Nightmare Tree involved.


That would explain why the current Macguiver is always using Jack's phone much better than saying he doesn't want to lose his own.

TCArknight
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby TCArknight » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:48 pm

Savioronedge wrote:That would explain why the current MacGyver is always using Jack's phone much better than saying he doesn't want to lose his own.

This. :) I think Mac is a good example of a Wierd Scientist. :)

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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby Atama » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:53 pm

Weird Science then needs a Radical Mullet perk.
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FrankG
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby FrankG » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:31 pm

Spatula wrote:Quick perk question, re: Ingenious (page 17). Is this correct?

1. PC spends Possibility, draws Destiny Card, places in in their hand (what is done with the 1st card isn't actually stated)
2. PC tests Mind, draws 1-3 Destiny Cards depending on success, gives one to another PC which goes into their hand
3. PC discards the extra 0-2 Destiny Cards (this also is not stated)


Can we get an official ruling on this one? Like Wotan, this is how I interpret it, however it doesn't actually say to discard the "extras".
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Re: Nile Empire Sourcebook Questions

Postby TorgHacker » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:37 am

FrankG wrote:
Spatula wrote:Quick perk question, re: Ingenious (page 17). Is this correct?

1. PC spends Possibility, draws Destiny Card, places in in their hand (what is done with the 1st card isn't actually stated)
2. PC tests Mind, draws 1-3 Destiny Cards depending on success, gives one to another PC which goes into their hand
3. PC discards the extra 0-2 Destiny Cards (this also is not stated)


Can we get an official ruling on this one? Like Wotan, this is how I interpret it, however it doesn't actually say to discard the "extras".


Yes, you discard the extras.
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