Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Sunrunner
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby Sunrunner » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:37 am

Its nice and big, but I need more mileage out of my limited spell choices. Most of the time the big bad you want to use it on will just spend a possibility and soak the damage anyways. Its good for draining the possibility but the limit of Once per scene and 2 turn cast means its just not worth it. Between possibility soak, Wind up Time of 2 turns and then just plain old crappy dice failure I have never seen it produce enough to justify it taking up one of my 2 starting spell slots or picking it up for the cost of a full perk. Torg keeps casters so starved for spell choices that you need to get consistent use out of a spell to take it. I mean just basic fluff utility spells that most other games GIVE you for free just for bothering to be a caster like Mage Light cost one of your full on spell slots. Or if you want to focus on Miracles things like Cure Poison, its so Iconic for the cleric to be the go to guy for this but its comes up so in frequently that I just cant justify spending a perk on it since ALL my initial choices are taken up covering my core roll just buy taking Soothe and Heal. After that its a perk a miracle and things like diminish and bless are WAY higher on my list.

ZorValachan
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby ZorValachan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:57 am

Sword of Spirit wrote:Just to be certain...those of you who have enjoyed it in your groups, are you following the rule that it takes 2 turns to cast?

Yes.
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Gargoyle
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby Gargoyle » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:11 am

I think there is room for stuff like this, if used sparingly, and not every choice needs to be popular or used frequently. The once per scene restriction doesn't bother me, the only thing I don't like about it is that it feels like you lose a turn, which is one of the worst things you can do in an RPG. It's why I dislike the Aim option. I would not balance anything with losing a turn, because that's just never fun enough to be worth the payoff to me. I wouldn't take it for that reason. If it had some sort of minor effect on the first turn of invoking it, like some sort of fear effect that could stymie the target because of the thunderclouds gathering and the static charges building in the air making their hair stand up on end, I'd dig it.
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ZorValachan
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby ZorValachan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:22 pm

Sometimes a damage 20 AP 4 is much better than 2 attacks of 15 damage, especially with high toughness threats that don't take shock. And higher damage means a soak roll won't always get rid of all the damage, or make the threat spend 2 Possibilities. with cards even more so. With 2 turns, a flurry can get it off in the same round. The party's sniper loves using flurry to aim and get the shot off, since she has the sniper perk, the +1BD is worth it to her. (I do use the aim=no random hit when firing into melee house rule)
Then i have another player who will shoot every single turn, no matter if he's firing into melee or not, he just doesn't care.
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Gargoyle
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby Gargoyle » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:43 pm

ZorValachan wrote:Sometimes a damage 20 AP 4 is much better than 2 attacks of 15 damage, especially with high toughness threats that don't take shock. And higher damage means a soak roll won't always get rid of all the damage, or make the threat spend 2 Possibilities. with cards even more so. With 2 turns, a flurry can get it off in the same round. The party's sniper loves using flurry to aim and get the shot off, since she has the sniper perk, the +1BD is worth it to her. (I do use the aim=no random hit when firing into melee house rule)
Then i have another player who will shoot every single turn, no matter if he's firing into melee or not, he just doesn't care.


Flurry does make Aim and other two turn actions palatable, forgot about that. And I do understand the importance of a big damage attack. It's very useful for tougher foes.
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utsukushi
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby utsukushi » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:52 pm

So, in a lot of cases, I find the missed-turn mechanic works better in Torg, again, than it does in other games I've seen it in, like Earthdawn -- again because it fits Torg's "flow". You're not totally inactive during that `missed' turn; you still put a card into your Pool, and very likely it will be one that you plan to use when you unleash your fury next round.

But it occurs to me that the problem in Earthdawn is that mages who need to spend a turn weaving a spell before casting it are doing that all the time, and that's really when it gets boring. I haven't played a character in Eternity that's really dedicated to that Aim-And-Snipe cycle, and indeed, it does seem like that would get repetitive and drab.

But in the case of Lightning Strike, that means its `once a Scene' limit is... I mean, obviously it's not a strength to the character, but a strength of the ability, because it stops it from getting redundant.

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Atama
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby Atama » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:05 pm

Sunrunner wrote:Its nice and big, but I need more mileage out of my limited spell choices. Most of the time the big bad you want to use it on will just spend a possibility and soak the damage anyways. Its good for draining the possibility but the limit of Once per scene and 2 turn cast means its just not worth it. Between possibility soak, Wind up Time of 2 turns and then just plain old crappy dice failure I have never seen it produce enough to justify it taking up one of my 2 starting spell slots or picking it up for the cost of a full perk. Torg keeps casters so starved for spell choices that you need to get consistent use out of a spell to take it. I mean just basic fluff utility spells that most other games GIVE you for free just for bothering to be a caster like Mage Light cost one of your full on spell slots. Or if you want to focus on Miracles things like Cure Poison, its so Iconic for the cleric to be the go to guy for this but its comes up so in frequently that I just cant justify spending a perk on it since ALL my initial choices are taken up covering my core roll just buy taking Soothe and Heal. After that its a perk a miracle and things like diminish and bless are WAY higher on my list.

You articulated my feelings about it better than I did. :)

Also my warrior-priest guy has stuck to healing/utility Miracles, he just physically smashes things when he wants to put out the hurt. Funny enough, I took Soothe and Heal just like you stated.

fougerec
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby fougerec » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:01 pm

Our "paladin" of Dunad took it as one of his starting miracles and uses it frequently (at two turns) because sometimes, just sometimes you need the big damage and the 20 AP4 is the biggest attack the group can bring to bear. It's a frequently used (and useful) tool for him when he needs to smite someone but good.

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TorgHacker
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby TorgHacker » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:27 pm

Just for the record, lightning strike can be invoked anywhere. Doesn't have to be outside.

A bit of background on this miracle. We wanted to play with something that was akin to a "rocket launcher" but we also need to balance a few things, namely that miracle invokers only need a single skill whereas mages need four, and they're the ones who are more 'blasty'. Doesn't mean that miracles workers can't do that obviously, but the best ones should be the wizards.

But on the otherhand, we don't want Rocket Launcher spam to be the default either.

I'm not sure that we threaded the needle, but I think it's at least not a universal no-brainer either way.
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Kuildeous
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Re: Opinions on lightning strike miracle?

Postby Kuildeous » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:38 am

Thanks for the clarification on the location that the miracle may be invoked, Deanna. My player will be glad to hear that.

Something else that strikes me as I read the miracle: Since it targets Dodge, I rule that it is subject to the firing-into-melee limitation. But it says that there is no penalty due to range, cover, or darkness. I'm sure this is a GM call, but I think this GM will call that it avoids hitting an ally. More of an RAI rather than RAW, unless you folks state that's your intention, in which case I might have to go against the grain there. The once-per-scene blammo should feel special.
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